Gun/antigun thread

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Gun/antigun thread

Post by sgtrecon212 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:28 pm

I said I would stay out of the thread drift in the thread "Holsters" but I wanted to share something I wrote for the local paper a few years ago in response to a shooting that took place locally. Forgive the lack of writing skill. After reading it tonight, it comes of as kinda "redneck". It was from the heart. BTW..... I belong to the NRA at this time.


I’m a regular Joe. Kinda… I’m a high school grad. I’m almost 40, I’ve gained a little weight over the years, I’m divorced and remarried, have some kids. My parents are in their 70’s. I really love my family. I work a regular job, I eat regular food, drive a regular car. I’m generally a nice guy. I have a basic religious knowledge, I’m a proud Army veteran. I‘m a voter. Here’s where the KINDA part comes in. I legally carry a concealed firearm for personal protection. Does this change your perception of me? Here’s the thing. I ‘m a law abiding responsible citizen. I like to hunt and enjoy the shooting sports. I‘m not armed with a bunch of facts and figures. I don’t even belong to the NRA. Is it horrible that the recent shootings have taken place? You bet! Is it wrong for me to own a weapon to keep these same bad guys from harming my family or myself ? A resounding NO! Violence can happen to you or me at any time and at any place. Being in the “right” part of town doesn’t guarantee your safety. Petty thieves used to just rob you. Now they shoot you, too. Is it wrong for criminals to have guns? You bet! Do they have guns? You bet! Am I wrong to want to protect the lives I hold so dear by carrying a firearm? Again, a resounding NO! I chose to go to the military and uphold the traditions and rights that were paid for with the blood of those before me. I believe in the Second Amendment. But it’s much more than that. I have a responsibility to my family. I would feel regret beyond comprehension if I had to stand helpless while a crime was committed against any of my friends or family because I was forbidden to do what was necessary to prevent that act from taking place. I believe you would feel the same. Do I wish to shoot the first person I see vandalizing my house? Another resounding NO! These matters are for the police. Have the same vandals changed the rules as soon as they enter my home with intent to harm my family or myself? You bet! At that point, they have made the decision to be dangerous criminals. Their decision, not mine. My responsibility to my family comes into play at that point. A weapon should be used for defensive purposes and only as a last resort. Responsible gun owners believe in this. Are you entitled to your opinion? Again, you bet! But please don’t try to take my rights away. If you don’t want to carry a gun, by all means don’t. It’s not for everyone. But don’t take my right to do so away, after all, as a veteran, I would have laid my life on the line to ensure your rights and defend your opinion. If you do wish to own a gun, please get education and training to teach you how to do so responsibly and safely, for gun ownership carries responsibility with a weight that can’t be measured. If I were unarmed in the local market and being held at gun point by a criminal, the police being precious minutes away, would I want a trained, confident, gun carrying citizen to step forward and change the situation to my benefit? You bet! The obituary column is a place for those who leave this earth holding a peaceful reconciliation with their long lives. It is not for those in their prime, their lives taken by a senseless act of violence. Do I have all the answers? My last resounding NO! Are these the answers that best fit me? You bet!
Steve
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Post by mgraepel » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:36 pm

Interesting write-up. I'll respond by saying three things and that's going to be the extent of my input on this thread. My father-in-law is a retired police officer and he has guns, but they're a necessary evil from the impression I get. Second, most gun-related injuries and deaths are caused by a person not properly trained in handling their gun that consequently gets said gun wrested away from them and used against themselves. I'm personally for gun control across the board because a gun is just too final of an answer.

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Post by MOSES » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:24 pm

Personally, I like your write-up. I do harbor a strong dislike, even a VERY strong dislike for the NRA. But I do figure if you wanna be able to carry a gun, you should.

Just one thing: PLEASE DON'T carry unless you know what you are doing. Very well. I strongly support the idea of fairly extensive required training for a concealed carry permit.

This is one of the reasons I don't carry. I grew up around guns. I am relatively comfortable shooting in a safe environment, and quite enjoy it. But I am definitely not trained to the point of being safe to use one in a pressure situation. I also do not really see the need for me, personally. Oh, and finally I hate carrying around my cell phone. The idea of trying to lug a gun around is appalling to me from a comfort standpoint. (I wish they made concealed carry holsters for cell phones, btw).

-Mo
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Post by aircraft_electrician » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:50 pm

I realize this is a hot topic for some people, and your opinions may differ from mine, so to prevent conflict, this will be my only post on this topic.

I own guns. I enjoy hunting and target shooting. I've taught both of my daughters how to shoot, and my youngest daughter, at 13 years old, will probably be getting her own rifle for Christmas this year.

However, unlike most shooting enthusiasts, I support most gun control laws.

Let me clarify. I firmly believe in the right to bear arms. It's in our Constitution. Our nation was founded on the belief that firearms were necessary to protect one's self and family from foreign threats, criminals and our own government, as well as to provide for our families. I completely disagree with banning all firearms.

But I also believe that a person that's been convicted of robbery (or any other violent crime) has no right to own a weapon of any kind. Some people have no right to own a firearm. They gave up that right by perpetrating violence toward another. I feel any gun dealer that sells a criminal a gun is irresponsible and has no business owning a gun, much less selling one. I feel that our government has a responsibility to its citizens to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

Gun control should not mean keeping guns away from responsible hunters and shooting entusiasts, and in reality, even with a complete firearms ban, it won't keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but it should provide for severe penalties and punishments for those who are in posession of firearms illegally.

That's my position on gun control, and you are entitled to your opinion, and I will respect that opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it, and, quite honestly, I tend to disagree with most that are in favor of and against gun control.

Tom
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Post by MOSES » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:57 pm

aircraft_electrician wrote:...quite honestly, I tend to disagree with most that are in favor of and against gun control.
Tom,

That is something of an accomplishment, I think. :)

Seriously, though. I tend to agree on a lot of points with you. I strongly support the right to own guns. For most people. But I also think a lot of gun control laws are valuable. I have no problem with (reasonable) waiting periods, training requirements, etc., as a rule, and think not doing a national background check would be idiocy.

-Mo
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Post by JohnP » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:57 pm

Steve,
I pretty much agree with your write up. I think as Americans having the right to choose to arm ourselves is one of our most precious rights, the one that puts teeth, if you will, behind the others.
I also agree that with ownership of a weapon comes responsibility. If you don't know what you are doing, or aren't comfortable with a weapon, no one is forcing you to own one. If you still want one, training is the best investment you'll make.
I also would point out that it's a good idea, if it isn't already part of the training, to look into the laws of using deadly force in your area, as well as how to legally carry. There are certain times that many think they are ok to shoot someone (because it's always ok on the movies or whatever) and it really is not.
I don't own any handguns locally, only long guns, but there are a few I'm interested in.
John P.

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Post by JohnP » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:01 pm

Tom,
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure convicted felons are already banned from ever owning a firearm, perhaps for the rest of their lives.
One loses quite a few of the rights and privileges of citizenship when convicted of a felony; unfortunately, there is a huge gap between laws on the books and those enforced. If we enforced the laws we already have, we wouldn't be needing new ones every couple months....all promising to make things right, when they aren't even enforcing the ones already written, which also were supposed to make things right...
John P.

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Post by aircraft_electrician » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:20 pm

John, you're absolutley right. Felons lose an incredible amount of rights that the rest of us take for granted. And you're right that these laws often are not enforced. That's one of the things I disagree about with most pro-gun control folks. We don't need more laws. We need to enforce the ones we have.

We also need to punish those guilty of breaking said laws. Mugging someone, wether with or without a weapon, should not be a misdemeanor offense, even for first time offenders. It's the people that get convicted of these kinds of crimes and then punished with nothing more than probation that feel they've gotten away with it and continue, often with progressively more violent and heinous crimes.

I realize I must sound pretty harsh and unforgiving, but I feel there is enough "repeat offender" evidence to support my standing.

Tom
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Post by Austin » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:23 pm

I am not opposed to owning guns. The only ban I support is automatic rifles and guns such as AK47s, etc. They serve no purpose but to kill as many people at once. Those should be outlawed.

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Post by MOSES » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:03 pm

Austin wrote:I am not opposed to owning guns. The only ban I support is automatic rifles and guns such as AK47s, etc. They serve no purpose but to kill as many people at once. Those should be outlawed.
But they are SO DARNED FUN!!!!

And actually, given the rather stringent requirements for owning one, I wonder if they ever really get used in criminal activity that much (excluding very sophisticated criminal activitly perfectly cabable of sourching illegal guns regardless of the laws).

-Mo
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Post by BD1970 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:55 am

Guns don't kill people....People kill people.
Brad

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Post by stanmog » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:16 am

If you go to www.gunfacts.info there is a downloadable PDF document that contains a wealth of data refuting the arguments for gun control and the associated myths (such as the statement above that many gunshot injuries are caused by a gun being wrested from its owner and used against the owner).

Regards,
Stan

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Post by MOSES » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:01 am

BD1970 wrote:Guns don't kill people....People kill people.
Indeed. But at most anything, better tools make people much more effective at their task. And guns are a MUCH superior tool for killing people.

-Mo
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Post by english_barber » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:19 am

Austin wrote:I am not opposed to owning guns. The only ban I support is automatic rifles and guns such as AK47s, etc. They serve no purpose but to kill as many people at once. Those should be outlawed.
Thankfully they were banned in the UK, eventually...

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Post by stanmog » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:23 am

And ever since guns were banned in Britain, violent crime has soared. Scotland now has more violent crime per capita than any other Western country. You are 6 times more likely to be mugged in London than NY city.

And, by the way, fully automatic weapons have been illegal in the US since 1932.

Stan

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Post by Climb14er » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:35 am

The cities in the United States that have the most restrictive gun laws have the highest violent crime rates. :roll:

If you take away the guns from the law abiding citizens, then only the criminals have the guns!

In places where there are favorable concealed carry laws, criminals think first before committing a crime on people.

These low lifes do not know who will answer their threat with lethal force! :wink:
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Short rant...

Post by JohnP » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:05 am

Some will no doubt disagree with me, but....
Personal opinion is that no firearm should be banned unless it is inherently unsafe (other than to an intentional target). I feel many miss the point by arguing that their gun is for hunting or sporting use only, whereas when the 2nd Amendment was written, the former colonists, now US citizens had just went through a nasty, bloody war with the very government which was supposed to be protecting them, fighting the same army that they themselves had in some cases been a part of or sent husbands, sons to be part of. It was written IMHO with a "never again" mindset, with intention of empowering the people to have some form of "check" against the government, should it become too tyrannical.
Therefore, I would argue that military style weapons are precisely what should be protected, even more than "sporting" weapons which would pose a nominal threat if any against government troops.
I think many of the "Assault weapons" banned have been shamefully misrepresented by the media, and without firearms knowledge or training, many simply believe what they see on TV. Fully automatic weapons (the Military AK-47's and others you see on the movies blasting out at 600 rounds per minute) have been banned or heavily government controlled, since 1932 (they were completely legal before that). No "legal" automatic weapon (class III license, tax paid, background check, etc) has ever been used in a crime. So...why try to restrict law abiding citizens even more?
So, essentially the ones submitted to be banned have been banned more on how they "look" versus them being in any way more deadly. They are not fully automatic. Semi-automatic weapons only fire one shot when the trigger is pulled. All these ads showing people spraying bullets are misrepresentations, either the person is firing a class III weapon, not a semi-automatic or burp firing it.
Sorry everyone, just a topic that pushes my buttons, with the decisions upstairs seemingly being made by people who've never even seen the things they intend to restrict we mere citizens from owning.
John P.

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Post by paddy » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:40 am

Thankfully they were banned in the UK, eventually...

Robert
Robert I agree entirely. I see you live in Hungerford. You know what you are talking about. (For those of you not in the UK, Hungerford is a quiet market town in England in which in 1987 some guy went berserk with guns and killed 15 random people, and wounded 14 others, before killing himself).

paddy

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Post by JohnP » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:51 am

Any time such a thing happens it is a tragedy, no matter where you stand on the issue of gun control.
John P.

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Post by BD1970 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:24 pm

In some parts of the US, especially in the small towns in the South, there is a common mentality among alot of folks....You loot, we shoot!!!!
Brad

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