Handgun thread, without the political BS

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JakAHearts
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Handgun thread, without the political BS

Post by JakAHearts » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:15 pm

So my reason for making this thread comes from an event on monday evening. I was asleep with my fiance at 330AM. Two loud cracks had me sit straight up in bed. My reaction was to sit very quietly and listen for what had happened. I heard nothing for about 3 minutes but then heard soft movements and a crash from something falling over in my basement. I have no pets so that wasnt an option. With my heart and brain racing I quickly thought that someone had been in a gunfight and the winner had just broken down the door into my basement. I have never been so scared in my life. So anyway, I didnt want to go out into the hallway not knowing where the intruder was and I didnt want to alert them to which room was occupied by placing a phone call. So I crouched, next to the door with my fiance lying in bed. I stayed there for about 45 minutes. To me, if somoene had just killed someone outside and was now in my house, they would have no problem killing two more people to get away. Now, if I had had a handgun or shotgun pointed at the door, I would have felt a lot safer. If someone breaks into my house and wants to steal things, they are more than welcome to anything theyd like. However, if they are there to cause harm to me or my family, I dont want to be spraying bear spray into the hallway. Actually, I might do that, and THEN keep my weapon aimed at the door.

The bangs outside turned out to be the fill door on my oil tank slamming shut in the wind and in turn must have caused a vacuum of sorts and part of my furnace covering was blown off the side of the furnace. What if someone had been in my house though? You still dont feel a gun is a good idea?

I agree with others though. I wouldnt be going through my house with the gun in front of me, Id be sitting in a locked room and if they happen to try to get in there, and still try after I tell them Im going to shoot them when they get in there, then tough luck for them.

Shane

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Bowcephalus
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Post by Bowcephalus » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:28 pm

I don't think I'd spray an armed intruder with pepper spray............

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sgtrecon212
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Post by sgtrecon212 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Jak... I'm glad you posted again, and revised the title. I was gonna post in the other thread about how we got off subject. The thread wasn't about the Constitution, trigger locks or anything like that.

I believe you have the right idea. Stay put, be armed, and handle the situation as you need. No need to go running around the house lookin to get clobbered. Unless I need to rescue a kid in the night, you can bet I'll take up a defensive posture in my room, behind cover and call 911. I'm not well trained in how to clear a house.

That said, if you are in a defensive position, and room is not an issue, a longarm is probably a better bet. I have a .410 next to my bed.

As for the handgun, get one of decent caliber. You will also hear the caliber arguments, like the "a .22 will kill just as a .45 will" True, but you want to stop the threat. That's the main thing, to stop the threat.. Likely a .45 will do that quicker. That's a fact.
Get what you can within your budget. Nowadays, a lot of very nice handguns can be had, and you don't have to break the bank. Spend the remainder of your money on ammo and practice.
I have 150 dollar handguns that are just as reliable and combat accurate as my 500 dollar gun. The more expensive gun has a better finish, and some frills and a high dollar name.
Steve
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sal
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Post by sal » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:08 pm

I am one of those "armed citizens"
If you want stopping power and to be defensive, you want a shotgun
All you have to do is point it towards, rather than aim ,at an intruder and you can get the job done.

When your adrenaline is flowing you have to have a lot of training to do what you need to do and pointing is a lot easier than aiming

Also your wife or child could "point" if need be and be effective with less training
IMHO

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AncientOne
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Post by AncientOne » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:59 pm

I feel that a firearm is a great idea, I just don't feel that a handgun is. Sorry if you thought I took your other thread off track...that wasn't my intention. My intention was to educate.

I won't make that mistake again...
James

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Post by Pete_T » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:07 pm

Id say pick up a nice little .40 or .45 revolver, take some classes, and go to a range a few times. The main thing you want to remember is that guns can easily go through walls and such, so you don't want to get too much power for defense. 45s and .40s will still go through walls, but I don't think they'd be as bad as a .357 or something like that, and theyve got plenty of stopping power. Revolvers are simple, no hassle and easy to shoot.

If you just go to a gun store and tell them whats up they can help you out. They do like to sell the larger calibers, though.

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sgtrecon212
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Post by sgtrecon212 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:09 pm

James, thanks for weighing in. And thanks for your service.

I certainly would agree with you that a long gun is a better option if you have that option. I'll take my 20 gauge with #4 or 00 buck any old day for defense.

This will sound silly, but even in a lot of old western movies, when there was trouble, the hero usually grabbed a long gun.
Steve
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AncientOne
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Post by AncientOne » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:18 pm

sgtrecon212 wrote:James, thanks for weighing in. And thanks for your service.

I certainly would agree with you that a long gun is a better option if you have that option. I'll take my 20 gauge with #4 or 00 buck any old day for defense.

This will sound silly, but even in a lot of old western movies, when there was trouble, the hero usually grabbed a long gun.
I agree...the 20gauge is nice by the way. I think long guns are a very useful and a safer way for society to operate with firearms. Handguns are bad news.
James

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JakAHearts
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Post by JakAHearts » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:41 pm

AncientOne wrote:I feel that a firearm is a great idea, I just don't feel that a handgun is. Sorry if you thought I took your other thread off track...that wasn't my intention. My intention was to educate.

I won't make that mistake again...
No worries. The shotgun vs. handgun for home defense seems to be a opinion and ymmv thing? Ive seen good arguements for both. Again, assuming Im not going through my house looking for perpetrators, the shotgun does make sense. However, arent most shotguns just one or two shots? Id prefer not to have to reload if I miss or if I hit the guy on LSD in the leg and he doesnt seem to care.

Shane

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Post by bleedingface » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:46 pm

One can get a semi automatic shotgun.

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ScottS
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Post by ScottS » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:48 pm

JakAHearts wrote: However, arent most shotguns just one or two shots? Id prefer not to have to reload if I miss or if I hit the guy on LSD in the leg and he doesnt seem to care.

Shane
Five shots, or more with a magazine extender. You can really trick out a Rem 870 pump gun with all the SWAT looking home defense deals-- pistol grip, mag extender, tac light, all the stuff to turn it into that magic phallic symbol you need your shotgun to be.

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Post by Churchill » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:51 pm

Evening gentlemen,
I agree that a shotgun is better for protection,however,I keep a handgun in my drawer next to my bed,locked.
I have small children in the house so it really isn't feasible to keep a long gun in reach.
I do not agree with the statement that handguns are bad news.
People who wield them with no experience and/or training are bad news.
Proper training is the key. I live in Texas where I have taken the right to carry training classes although I do not have a permit because I see no need to carry,i just want to be able to protect my family in my home.The class also teaches the consequences of using your firearm.
As to the stay put idea I would say once my children are safe,then I'll stay put. Until I get to them all bets are off.
Hope I don't sound like a crazy but the safety of my kids is my number one priority.
Bob

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JakAHearts
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Post by JakAHearts » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 pm

You dont sound crazy at all. I wouldnt have been so worried/scared if the lady was away. Since I dont yet have any kids, I dont have to worry about them. If I did, all hell would be loose if I thought they were threatened.

Shane

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Post by Slant-Fan » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:59 pm

Another advantage of the shotgun is less penetration. If you miss with a handgun rounds going through walls can have unintended consequences. Not to say that a 12 gauge with 00 buck won't penetrate but not as much as a heavy caliber handgun.
Regards,

jimmy

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Post by sgtrecon212 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:10 pm

Mossberg 500 pump.. Reliable, inexpensive. Great shotgun. 5 shots I think.
Steve
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Post by Pete_T » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:15 pm

JakAHearts wrote:
No worries. The shotgun vs. handgun for home defense seems to be a opinion and ymmv thing? Ive seen good arguements for both. Again, assuming Im not going through my house looking for perpetrators, the shotgun does make sense. However, arent most shotguns just one or two shots? Id prefer not to have to reload if I miss or if I hit the guy on LSD in the leg and he doesnt seem to care.

Shane
Yeah, it is a YMMV. Personally Id pick a .45 semi auto handgun for home defense. A shotgun is larger and less easily/quickly wielded in a close environment like a house, and the spread pattern at that close of a range wont be that big of a help with accuracy unless you saw it off. Even though the shotgun would be more accurate just because its harder to shoot a handgun accurately then youd think.

Id still recommend a revolver over an automatic to you, though. They're really simple and very reliable. Your wife should be able to wield it easily as well, if shes interested in training on it.

But the thing to remember is that if you were positive that you had somebody in your house, all you'd need to do would be just to fire a shot or two in the robbers general direction, even through the door or whatnot. Somebody breaking into your house isn't going to get into a gunfight with you over trying to steal your stuff. When they hear a shot they're going to get the hell out of there as fast as they can.

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Post by Big Fella » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:30 pm

I was a police firearms instructor for 25 years. My advice would be to go with a Remington 870 shotgun. Load it with 71/2 shot . The concentrated shot pattern at room distance is devistating, but the small shot size helps to keep it from over penatrating a wall and killing your neighbor. At the close ranges associated with room distance shooting, aiming is still necessary as the pattern has not had distace to spread. Even with a shotgun, go shooting and get familiar with your weapon. Stay Safe!!!!
Stay Safe!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by GollyMrScience » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:39 pm

Well I cannot understand for the life of me what the heck all this handguns are bad news business is.
I have used both in the real world and folks a stupid person with a long gun is just as dangerous if not more so than a stupid person with a handgun.
Just because handguns have become the whipping boy of those unable to stop bad guys from misusing them does not mean they should be invalidated as suitable tools for law abiding citizens too.
It makes as much sense to me as pointing out that an inordinate number of bank robberies are carried out by balaclava masked bad guys so we should make sure that no one should have a balaclava.
For those that keep saying that handguns have only one purpose and that is to maim or kill then they prove the argument FOR a handgun for defensive purposes. If you present a handgun in a self defense scenario you are not doing so without the clear understanding that it is SUPPOSED to maim or kill. Thats what you took it out to do.
If shooting somebody dead with a hunting rifle is somehow better in your head than shooting them dead with a handgun then you can wrap yourself in the warm and fuzzy thought that the rifle could be used to hunt with too. Its a validation trip I dont buy.
If you have made a decision to use deadly force in the form of a firearm then it is a moot point which one if you are trained and capable of using it.
-Tom-

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GollyMrScience
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Post by GollyMrScience » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:42 pm

I forgot to mention that my preference in firearms for defense would be a shotgun over a handgun any day but the best gun is the one you have with you.
-Tom-

What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!!

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ScottS
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Post by ScottS » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:20 am

GollyMrScience wrote: I have used both in the real world and folks a stupid person with a long gun is just as dangerous if not more so than a stupid person with a handgun.
The one real difference is that when the idiot walking down the street is carrying a long gun, you generally know it.

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