SMF

Just curious... I was at the pumps feeding my Subaru (which needs the Premium Champagne) and hit the roof after paying $71 for 48 litres.

So the hunt begins for efficiency and Volkswagen's TDI engine seems top of the list. Anyone experienced this 'marvel'?

Jason,

I drove one in Europe for a week and would buy one here if diesel was more readily available. Great performance (for a diesel) with great mileage as long as you drive reasonably. If diesel fuel is available in your general area I think it is a good option.

jtpca wrote:Just curious... I was at the pumps feeding my Subaru (which needs the Premium Champagne) and hit the roof after paying $71 for 48 litres.

So the hunt begins for efficiency and Volkswagen's TDI engine seems top of the list. Anyone experienced this 'marvel'?

I wish we had a greater selection of diesels in North America. Sigh.

wow! i'm really surprised to learn about this. diesel is, without exception, available at every gas station in the UK and mainland europe. i had assumed that it was more or less the same in the us and canada. is this not the case?

A good friebd of mine has one. (about a 5 year old car now) Excellent fuel milage! Has more than its share of problems though. Is natural gas available to you?

Joe

paddy wrote:wow! i'm really surprised to learn about this. diesel is, without exception, available at every gas station in the UK and mainland europe. i had assumed that it was more or less the same in the us and canada. is this not the case?

I would say 40% of gas stations carry diesel in our parts (Southern Ontario). Possibly even less. You have to remember that outside of commercial trucks (lorry's in your case) and heavy duty pick-up trucks there are very little on-road diesel vehicles. Volkswagen has always had a diesel (somewhat popular) and up until recently that was it. Now there is a diesel Jeep out there, a handful of Smarts, and Mercedes carries a few, but they are not very popular.

I drove a diesel pick-up for a few years (Dodge, with a Cummins diesel). While it was great on fuel economy for a vehicle of its size it wasn't great on lift-pumps, fuel pumps, tires and front end parts because of the added weight. Also, finding someone to fix the damn thing was a problem, especially if you were out of town. North America simply isn't setup for diesels the way Europe is. You can find repair shops that specialize in Volkswagons and commercial trucks, but very little in between.

I had a diesel Ford Ranger in 1986. It was quite hard to find diesel in those days. It was rather interesting in the cold too - no chance of starting in the winter unless the block heater was plugged in, and when the engine was cold it would only go up hills in first gear!

Chris

paddy wrote:wow! i'm really surprised to learn about this. diesel is, without exception, available at every gas station in the UK and mainland europe. i had assumed that it was more or less the same in the us and canada. is this not the case?

Paddy - Many gas stations do not want trucks(lorries) driving through the station, and that is mostly what is fueled by diesel in the US. This is especially true in suburban areas where the customers want to drive their sedans and not inhale the diesel fumes or get their car scratched up by a giant steel loading bumper. Another fact is petrol is and has been more popular because it is a better fuel. Engines run better on it and here in the US it is still cost effective to use and produce. It seems most other countries are trying to restrict use through taxation when I see prices per gallon (litre) in the EU and Canada in comparison to the US.

In the case of the VW Toureg there's close to a $5K difference between a non-TDI and TDI - a 1.5 year payback period based on their TDI calculator (which is based on $1.08/litre fuel cost). Their calculator allows one to look at the fuel savings when compared to most other vehicles...

http://www.vw.ca/ca/en_ca/shop___price/ ... rator.html

I always drive diesel when I am visiting the UK -- have driven the Jetta TDI a number of times, one of my favourite cars. I have friends who have only driving TDIs in the past several years -- they are not the diesels of yester-year.

Unfortunately, here in North America we seem to lean more towards hybrid vehicles which offer pretty lackluster performance (yes even the new so-called hybrid performance Lexus hatch). Give me a diesel any day - they are wonderful vehicles.

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Interesting discussion on diesel supply. In Alberta, almost every station carries diesel - mind you with industry as it is here demand is high.

Everything I have read about the TDI engine is impressive, though I note VW's reliability record is somewhat sorted over the years.

jtpca wrote:Thanks for all of the feedback.

Interesting discussion on diesel supply. In Alberta, almost every station carries diesel - mind you with industry as it is here demand is high.

Everything I have read about the TDI engine is impressive, though I note VW's reliability record is somewhat sorted over the years.

There is the issue. As soon as an expensive diesel-related repair comes up how long does it take to recoup the fuel savings. Problems can crop up with any car but statistically less with say a Corolla or a Camry. We have a 2005 Camry that is wonderful on gas and has zero problems. Knocks on wood.

The price of diesel here is almost the same as regular gas, about $1.30 a litre. The only benefit of diesel would be better fuel efficiency, as a few weeks ago regular gas was cheaper than diesel.

jtpca wrote:... though I note VW's reliability record is somewhat sorted over the years.

That isn't the case any more -- VW's reliability has improved significantly over the past 8 years or so. Their diesels run forever.

Booking a test drive and maybe the Easter Bunny will deliver a Golf Wagon... stay tuned.

jww wrote:

jtpca wrote:... though I note VW's reliability record is somewhat sorted over the years.

That isn't the case any more -- VW's reliability has improved significantly over the past 8 years or so. Their diesels run forever.

The only VW model noted for being unreliable these days is the Passat/A4. Others have gathered a favorable reputation from the mechanics and owners I talk to.

jtpca wrote:Booking a test drive and maybe the Easter Bunny will deliver a Golf Wagon... stay tuned.

Love the Golf estate with the TDI. One of the things I love about diesels is the low-end grunt -- there is always power to pass on the highway, get up to speed from the start, etc. --- it's all about higher torque kicking in at the low end of the RPM scale.

Diesel's strictly for taxis, trucks and tractors. All that belching soot and rattling. Filthy fuel. Pump your own and you stink for days. Even the sums don't add up in its favour anymore (in the UK at any rate). Hybrids, FTW.

Seamaster wrote:Diesel's strictly for taxis, trucks and tractors. All that belching soot and rattling. Filthy fuel. Pump your own and you stink for days. Even the sums don't add up in its favour anymore (in the UK at any rate). Hybrids, FTW.

Wow. My diesel experience has been oceans different from yours. I've been driving VW diesels for the last 12 years. The rattling -- yeah, this engine is noisier on the outside than most gas-powered fours. The newer ones are quieter. Soot? D**n little -- almost nonexistent now that they've lowered the sulfur content of America's diesel fuel. I've only reeked once after filling my car and that's because I stepped in a puddle of fuel (unlike gasoline, diesel fuel will not simply evaporate into the air). I figure if a station's pumps are filthy, their fuel isn't clean enough for me, so I avoid them. And gas doesn't exactly smell like Coate's Rose, either, especially out of a cold tailpipe.

Diesel fuel is not hard to find out here. Aside from BP stations and some cheap independent Kwik-E-Marts, almost everyone carries it.

Yes, the diesel models cost more. When I bought mine the difference was only $1000. Like any car, you have to compare trim levels, etc. Here, the price difference between regular unleaded gas and diesel is around 30 cents a gallon (about 8% difference; diesel is higher). But I typically get around 45 mpg in mixed driving. The gas-engined Jetta comparable to mine gets around 24 mpg mixed. Granted, that's American prices and taxation. But I'll pay 8% more for fuel if I can go almost 100% further on it.

A hybrid is a great choice as long as you're not doing much highway driving and you don't think a lot about the cradle-to-grave energy costs of two motors and really heavy batteries. But diesel -- it's almost a plug-and-play change for most Americans and it would certainly improve mileage by half-again. Its lack of popularity is perplexing in light of the facts.

The newer generation diesel engines used for mass production of personal automobiles have long outgrown the days of the loud knocking, obnoxious smelly smoke-producers they were a decade or more ago.