Went for a test drive.

jww · Post by **jww** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:27 am

I try to wax a couple of times a year --- it helps but doesn't eliminate chips and scratches, the bane of my existence where my cars are concerned.

GA Russell · Post by **GA Russell** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:29 pm

The Honda salesman told me that too, Murray.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:05 am

jww wrote:
Daytime running lights have long been the law here in Canada, as well as parts of Europe. Denmark, as an example, reported 7% reduction in accidents because vehicles are more visible to each other. But if you look hard enough, you can find evidence that suggests they don't make any difference at all. All I know is that I have driven with my lights on constantly for many years. My cars now have automatic lights that shut off when I turn the vehicle off. Works for me ... I admit to liking the difference in visibility of other drivers when their car has DRLs installed. ymmv.

Judging by how many people drive in daytime fog, or a snow flurry, and fail to turn their lights on, I'm thankful for DRLs. It doesn't harm anyone. Last couple vehicles I've had use the orange "parking lights" as their daytime runners, I prefer this.

+1 on the shout out for the new Escape. Nice looking, and well equipped. I like how Ford has taken their "world car" approach from the Escort of the 80s to now --- they are actually putting some very nice cars on the road these days. Honestly, they are.

I recently read: American Icon: Alan Mulally and the Fight to Save Ford Motor Company by Bryce Hoffman. It is a recent book and details how Alan Mulally turned around Ford. Great book for anyone interested in autos and changed my view on Ford vehicles entirely.

Post by **Sam** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:07 am

Interesting Richard. Maybe I can get it on Kindle. Got some books that were easily transported to my Kindle, reading the Steve Jobs book now.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:44 am

Sam wrote:Interesting Richard. Maybe I can get it on Kindle. Got some books that were easily transported to my Kindle, reading the Steve Jobs book now.

I read it on my Kindle. If you enjoyed Steve Jobs, you will enjoy the book on Alan Mulally.

dosco · Post by **dosco** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:46 am

rustyblade wrote:I recently read: American Icon: Alan Mulally and the Fight to Save Ford Motor Company by Bryce Hoffman. It is a recent book and details how Alan Mulally turned around Ford. Great book for anyone interested in autos and changed my view on Ford vehicles entirely.

I will check this out.

NPR had a regular piece called "Interviews from the Corner Office" or somesuch where the interviewee was the CEO of a company. One was an interview with Alan Mulally perhaps a year or two after he took over Ford. It was fascinating (could be available as a podcast from NPR ... dunno), the one thing from the interview that blew my mind was when he described having his first meeting and asking about how Ford matched their production capacity to projected demand. The answer was that they didn't and had been overproducing trucks and SUVs for years ... that's about the time that Ford initiated the shutdown of something like 18 plants. Shocker.

dosco · Post by **dosco** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:55 am

The wife and I have moved to Honda and Toyota cars. We were "loyal" American car buyers but the vehicles in the mid to late 1990s and early 2000s forced our hand.

We drove Saturns until kid #1's baby carrier was too big for the Saturn, we considered the larger Saturn but instead went with a Camry. I only got rid of that thing last year ... had driven it for something like 11 years.

The other car was in reality a parade of SUVs. First had a 1997 Ford Exploder ... err ... Explorer. Then went to a 2002 Explorer. My wife was nearly hit driving it, so she went to the IIHS website and found that the Honda Odyssey was a "top safety pick." Went and got one of those and took a bath on the trade in ... Fords (at the time) had horrible resale value. The Odyssey had a smaller engine (3.5L V-6 versus the Ford's 4.0L V-6) and weighed something like 1,000 lbs less than the Explorer ... and was faster, more fuel efficient, and has much more interior room than the Ford. Plus the resale value is excellent.

I unloaded the Camry and got a Honda Accord, the 4 cylinder with a stick shift. The thing is great (although I really wanted a Corvette. Someday.).

I drove the Hyundai Elantra about 2 years ago while on a business trip, I liked its styling and driveability, but found the interior ergonomics to be unacceptable.

Toyota Yaris ... ugh. Horrible.

Toyota Matrix ... OK except for interior ergonomics.

YMMV.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:03 pm

dosco wrote:
NPR had a regular piece called "Interviews from the Corner Office" or somesuch where the interviewee was the CEO of a company. One was an interview with Alan Mulally perhaps a year or two after he took over Ford. It was fascinating (could be available as a podcast from NPR ... dunno), the one thing from the interview that blew my mind was when he described having his first meeting and asking about how Ford matched their production capacity to projected demand. The answer was that they didn't and had been overproducing trucks and SUVs for years ... that's about the time that Ford initiated the shutdown of something like 18 plants. Shocker.

My favourite quote:

"An automobile has about 10,000 moving parts, right? An airplane has two million, and it has to stay up in the air." (on being asked "How are you going to tackle something as complex and unfamiliar as the auto business when we are in such tough financial shape?")
Alan Mulally, 2007

JayTrek · Post by **JayTrek** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:03 pm

I work for The Boeing Company that Mulally left to go to Ford. He was vital to Boeing Commercial Aircraft keeping its footing while the nation recovered from 9-11. He was very smart and quite the dynamic personality. I did get to meet him once when he was at my site for a visit before he left. Probably one of the best all hands meetings I have attended. Part of his charisma is that he, in general, approaches things with common sense, and has a reputation for straight talk.

I was really convinced that he would eventually be the President and CEO of Boeing one day. Obviously the wheels on that process turned a bit too slowly...and he departed for Ford.

In my opinion...for Boeing at least...that was a misstep that we are still paying for today. Just my opinion.

dosco · Post by **dosco** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:11 am

rustyblade wrote: My favourite quote:

"An automobile has about 10,000 moving parts, right? An airplane has two million, and it has to stay up in the air." (on being asked "How are you going to tackle something as complex and unfamiliar as the auto business when we are in such tough financial shape?")
Alan Mulally, 2007

Now that you mention it I remember this also.

Definitely funny to hear how self-inflated people become when isolated in their industry's stovepipe. I see this with the shipbuilding industry as well.

fallingwickets · Post by **fallingwickets** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:02 am

thanks for the book rec

clive

GA Russell · Post by **GA Russell** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:16 pm

Of the four mid-size sport sedans I drove, the Honda felt the worst - the ride was too firm for me. But everything that I read indicates that the 2013 Accord is the one to get.

So I went back to the Honda dealer today and test drove the base Accord (the LX), and liked it better. Then the salesman suggested that I drive another sport Accord, so I drove one with a six-speed manual. I liked the ride of that one too, maybe just a little bit better than that of the LX. So apparently the SX I drove the other day was not typical, and for me not as good a car.

The sticker price of the LX was $23,000, and today's SX was $24,000.

Going from memory, I would say that the ride of all of the sedans I drove was satisfactory. I think I would still rate the Hyundai Sonata as the best, but not enough better to get me to buy it.

I saw an AOL article the other day regarding the top ten 2013 vehicles you can expect to keep for 300,000 miles. #1 was the Accord, and #3 was the Camry. #2 was a General Motors truck as I recall.

jww · Post by **jww** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:07 pm

So -- my one observation here is that if two identical cars from the same dealer drive differently, what is really going on in Honda manufacturing? Sounds like the old GM days when you would drive every model of the car you wanted which was on the lot and took the one that felt/drove the best.

dosco · Post by **dosco** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:52 am

jww wrote:So -- my one observation here is that if two identical cars from the same dealer drive differently, what is really going on in Honda manufacturing? Sounds like the old GM days when you would drive every model of the car you wanted which was on the lot and took the one that felt/drove the best.

It's unlikely that different models (4 door vice 2 door "sport" model) would drive the same. The 2 door had a 6 speed manual (my 4-cylinder, 4 door, has a 5-speed manual), and the sport version he drove may also have had the 6 cylinder. Different weight distributions, different tires, etc.

Also, people are notoriously unreliable in the "giving kinesthetic feedback" department. Just watch a season of Formula 1 racing and you'll see what I mean.

I'd doubt that anything went seriously awry with Honda's manufacturing (although it's certainly not out of the range of possibilities).

GA Russell · Post by **GA Russell** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:58 pm

Well, one standard that I used was what I am used to - my current car, a 1987 Camry.

The Sonata was more comfortable, but the first Accord was less comfortable.

jww · Post by **jww** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:01 am

I clearly missed you tried a 2-door and 4-door -- -for some reason I thought they were both 4-doors. I stand corrected.

fallingwickets · Post by **fallingwickets** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:56 am

so I drove one with a six-speed manual.

as an aside, i parked next to a mini yesterday and was horrified to see that it wasnt manual.....seriously!,they shouldnt sell a mini with automatic gears.....ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

clive

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:11 am

fallingwickets wrote:
so I drove one with a six-speed manual.
as an aside, i parked next to a mini yesterday and was horrified to see that it wasnt manual.....seriously!,they shouldnt sell a mini with automatic gears.....ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

clive

If the vehicle is a daily driver and if you are in stop and go traffic, I would take an auto over stick all the time. Also, automatics have become so advanced that they are often more fuel efficient than vehicles equipped with manuals.

If you buy a mini and plan to drive on curvy mountain roads all day long, then by all means, get the stick.

gsgo · Post by **gsgo** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:23 am

Our 2013 Honda Accord EX-L with the CVT transmission is very good and the best of all we tested. I was not a big fan of CVT's but this next generation is headed in the right direction.

jww · Post by **jww** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:23 am

rustyblade wrote:...

If you buy a mini and plan to drive on curvy mountain roads all day long, then by all means, get the stick.

When we can, we always by sticks by choice. We just prefer to drive sticks. At the moment we have one of each, but that's mainly due to the fact that the Santa Fe doesn't come with a stick -- and I don't know that I'd want a SUV with a manual in North America. But, I digress -- I still prefer a pure stick with a clutch over the current crop of manu-matics although the Volkswagen DSG box, is reported as being simply fabulous.