Went for a test drive.

[Kyle76]

Richard, you must have gotten one of those Monday cars!

My 2010 Tundra pickup is a beast. I have no complaints *knocking on wood*.

[Rufus]

Wendell, you're right about the price point of the RX. I find it a gut wrencher, but rationalise it on the basis that we'll keep the car for a good long time. I like the looks of the redesigned Rav 4 and will be steering SWMBO in that direction; I think it would last as long as the RX and be just as reliable.

I am definitely liking the new Rav4 but I thought that it was the Highlander that was the same platform as the RX?

Wendell, yes, the Highlander is on the same platform. My thinking on the Rav 4 is that she doesn't need a car the size of an RX or Highlander, not to mention the $$$$$ differential.

It's a shame about Richard's experience with his 2 Toyotas; let's hope these are isolated incidence. The very first car I purchased was a Toyota Corolla in 1971. It was very basic, especially by today's standards, but it got the job done. Since then we've owned 4 Toyotas/Lexus and have been happy with them all. Having said that though, the car I'd like my wife to get is a Subaru Outback, but she won't hear of it for her own murky reasons...sigh

[rustyblade]

Richard, you must have gotten one of those Monday cars!

My 2010 Tundra pickup is a beast. I have no complaints *knocking on wood*.

I was considering the 2013 Tundra, because we wanted a full size. I was comparing with the F-150. There is no comparison, the Ford beats it in many ways, and I never thought I would be sticking up for an "American Truck". I didn't want a 5.7L V8. Ford has two very good choices, the 3.5L Ecoboost and the 5.0l V-8, both of which are excellent engines and have decent fuel consumption for a full size (I got the V8 ). The dealer tried to get me excited about the 2014 Tundra, and lo and behold when they released the specs, the drivetrains are the same as back in 2007.

[rustyblade]

Having said that though, the car I'd like my wife to get is a Subaru Outback, but she won't hear of it for her own murky reasons...sigh

My brother's Subaru STi WRX spent the first month in and out of the dealership because they couldn't find why it kept throwing a code (something about the fuel system). Turns out during the shipment from Japan a spider had made a small nest inside the fuel vent tube (something like that) and it wasn't venting properly.

I've had pretty rotten luck with new vehicles in the past, but overall they are getting less problematic. I wouldn't call the problems I've had with Toyota chronic, they were fixed and went away (except for the Tacoma, which overall was excellent, I mean it started in the end, right?). My first new car was a 1995 Pontiac Sunfire. Wow, the quality on that thing was bad. The dash was 1/2" lower on the left side than the right to the point it was rubbing on the driver door and squeeking. The dealer's response was, it's okay, they are all like that. I looked at 3 on the lot and sure enough, they all were like that. That was top of the list of about a dozen warranty claims.

[jww]

The only car I owned which had no warranty problems was a 1982 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon. I bought it in 1995 for a grand including the safety check, drove it for 2 years, and sold it for $500 as-is. Rear side window leaked in the rain, especially when I took a right turn -- I can only imagine what holes, nooks and crannies were hiding in that old beast. It was great for scout camps though.

This is not the original vehicle we had, but pretty darn close to the same colour. She were a beauty.



I get the Rav4 price point discussion - it's a better size now than it was a few models back. Then again, when I look at the dollars, my reliability experience with Hyundai has found me buying their cars again and again. I just can't get the Hyundai value prop - and 100K KM warranty out of my mind. They are seriously good cars for the money - -really they are.

[GA Russell]

The Honda saleswoman has told me today that the base model Accord comes without the front shock tower bar.

What the heck is that?

[Rufus]

Wendell, I had one of those, which I bought in 1985. Without a doubt it is the worst car I've ever owned: The back seat wasn't level and the dealer could never get it in properly; the lip under the tailgate was rusted, but this could only be seen when the tailgate was opened to the side rather than down; the transmission slipped from the moment I took delivery and the dealer never got it to function properly; the wheels always felt out of alignment even though the dealer said they were properly aligned. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I sold the car after 3 years and it was the last American car I've owned. Apparently, 3 months after I sold the car the transmission had to be replaced...timing, timing, timing. Since then I've owned only Toyotas/Lexus and Hondas/Acuras and my driving has been trouble free and the cars enjoyable.

[gsgo]

The Honda saleswoman has told me today that the base model Accord comes without the front shock tower bar.

What the heck is that?

The shock tower bar is set up between the top of your two front wheel shock absorbers, meant to help improve handling. It seems to be standard on all other models, understandable that an item like this might not be available on the LX. A test drive would probably be in order to see if you could tell the difference. You could always add one after market as they usually are not that expensive.

[GA Russell]

Thanks, Gary!

I think I want to compare apples to apples - in this case what lists for $24,000. It's only fair.

[Esoteric83]

Wendell, Ottawa Honda by chance? Sounds like it based on similar stories from friends.

I'm a Honda lifer, but have yet to buy a new car. That being said, I am looking to break rank and consider the Sub/Toyota BRZ-FT model come spring.

Used car sales guy do get a bad rap, many deserving I am sure, but I have always had good experiences buying used cars off lots. Reputation and referrals are key.

[rtaylor61]

The only car I owned which had no warranty problems was a 1982 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon. I bought it in 1995 for a grand including the safety check, drove it for 2 years, and sold it for $500 as-is. Rear side window leaked in the rain, especially when I took a right turn -- I can only imagine what holes, nooks and crannies were hiding in that old beast. It was great for scout camps though.

This is not the original vehicle we had, but pretty darn close to the same colour. She were a beauty.



I get the Rav4 price point discussion - it's a better size now than it was a few models back. Then again, when I look at the dollars, my reliability experience with Hyundai has found me buying their cars again and again. I just can't get the Hyundai value prop - and 100K KM warranty out of my mind. They are seriously good cars for the money - -really they are.

Mine was dark blue with woodgrain.

[jww]

Wendell, Ottawa Honda by chance? Sounds like it based on similar stories from friends.

...

Yup -- and Dow Honda as well. Also a dealer in St. Catharines who were unbelievably rude to us when we were first married 32+ years ago. We took a car to test drive 10 minutes before closing on a Thursday evening, and returned around 30 minutes later and they guy gave us a right chewing out because he couldn't go home. I drove back into that dealer with my brand spankin' new 1982 Sentra MPG (with rear spoiler .... ) and found the sales manager to point out my new car. He looked at me quizically and then i pointed to the jerky salesman who treated us so poorly and told him if it hadn't been for that salesrep, we would have bought an Accord hatch ..... he became quite lost for words, apologized and said he hoped we enjoyed the new car. Drove that little darling for 190K km and sold it as is for $2K 8+ years later.

Regarding Subaru, I have recently become quite enamoured with the new Crosstek. I know -- you are all thinking it's just an Imprezza hatch raised up with some cladding. Don't forget the Outback was simply a Legacy estate raised with some cladding and it's still the one car I see driven locally more in Maine and Vermont than any other car when we are there.

[Rufus]

Regarding Subaru, I have recently become quite enamoured with the new Crosstek. I know -- you are all thinking it's just an Imprezza hatch raised up with some cladding. Don't forget the Outback was simply a Legacy estate raised with some cladding and it's still the one car I see driven locally more in Maine and Vermont than any other car when we are there.

Ah yes, the Crosstrek, I'm very enamoured with it. If I weren't keeping my current car for 4/5 more years it'd be a very serious contender. My only concern is over our local Subaru dealership. It's owned by a family that owns most of the other dealerships (BMW, Mini, Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, GM, Volvo) in the town and they have an absolutely horrible reputation for customer service; just plain imperious. I wouldn't buy a car from any of their dealerships let alone havie my car serviced at one; as a consequence I'd have to go to the next town, which would be an inconvenience, but in the final analysis I could live with that to get the car I most want.

[jww]

It is interesting how these mega-car families tend to cluster around manufacturers --- BMW and Subaru are often corralled together in the same shared lots.

The Crosstek or something like it will probably be in the running when we have to replace the Santa Fe for sure. But like you, that's probably 4 years away at the moment.

[GA Russell]

I test drove a Toyota Camry SE this afternoon. It lists for $25,000.

I was impressed. It had good power, good handling and was quiet. It accelerated quickly and easily. Good leg room, but not as much as the Sonata.

If price and brand history were not factors, I think I would choose the Sonata. But with a 26 year old Camry, it's hard to turn my back on them.

I have an Accord test drive scheduled for Sunday if the weather is nice.

[jww]

I don't think that there is a wrong answer for you here and am confident that you will be happy with any one of the cars on your list ..... Although I do admit to being partial to the Sonata because of my affinity to Hyundai.

Nothing like a new car .... except perhaps a new razor, soap or brush:)

[GA Russell]

I went to kia.com last night to where they have the page to compare a model with competitors.

So I compared the Optima sport with the Sonata sport, and the Sonata won almost every category. And this was on the Kia web page!

[GA Russell]

By the way, one thing that I was not impressed with about today's Camry was that the view of the rearview mirror was distorted. I imagine that was a problem with the mirror rather than the rear window, but it made my eyes hurt!

[GA Russell]

I don't think that there is a wrong answer for you here and am confident that you will be happy with any one of the cars on your list ..... Although I do admit to being partial to the Sonata because of my affinity to Hyundai.

Nothing like a new car .... except perhaps a new razor, soap or brush:)

Wendell, I like to keep my cars until they die. What's the longest you've kept a Hyundai?

[Rufus]

I test drove a Toyota Camry SE this afternoon. It lists for $25,000.

I was impressed. It had good power, good handling and was quiet. It accelerated quickly and easily. Good leg room, but not as much as the Sonata.

If price and brand history were not factors, I think I would choose the Sonata. But with a 26 year old Camry, it's hard to turn my back on them.

I have an Accord test drive scheduled for Sunday if the weather is nice.

Consumer Reports 2013 car ratings rates the Camry as the top midsize sedan. The Accord and Sonata are rated best overall in the class just behind the Camry. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, but I'd be inclined towards the Camry given my experience with Toyota over the last 25 years.