SMF

My long-deceased uncle used to have a favorite riddle: What does a man do standing up, a woman do sitting down, and a dog do on three legs? The answer is: shake hands. I am reminded of this every time I'm sitting down and someone approaches to shake hands. It's tempting to just remain seated, and mos people will say, "Keep your seat," but I try to make it a point to stand up whenever I shake hands.

Had a experience of great etiquette on Friday evening. Wife and I made a stop at our favorite Italian restaurant, and witnessed two examples of good etiquette.

The first was a gentleman in a party of 6 at a table across the room who got a call on his cell phone and proceeded to excuse himself and got up from the table and went out into the waiting section of the restaurant to take the call. So nice to see some one do that for a change.

The second incident happened just a few minutes later when a guy enters the restaurant and goes to a table in the opposite corner where there were 3 women and another gentleman sitting. As he entered the restaurant and walked toward the table he took off his sunglasses and hat, put the glasses in his hat and placed it on his lap as he sat down. I guess his dad taught him well and he followed his dad's instructions.

Great to see folks using the good old time etiquette for a change.

Gareth wrote:Well the Royal Air Force taught me hats off indoors, so that's what a I do. I don't wear a hat except when in uniform anyway, but it's a shame to see basic manners like this go the way of the dinosaur.

Ah, I remember old and bold drill Sergeants shouting "There's no woodpeckers inside!!!" if they spotted a beret indoors.

As dog-handlers we often had exemptions from wearing them outdoors.

There are few things that so touch us with instinctive revulsion as a breach of decorum; and so far have we progressed in the direction of imputing intrinsic utility to the ceremonial observances of etiquette that few of us, if any, can dissociate an offence against etiquette from a sense of the substantial unworthiness of the offender. A breach of faith may be condoned, but a breach of decorum can not. "Manners maketh man."
-Veblen

There is a distinction between bad manners and bad behavior, and we should be charitable in making it. A man who wears his hat indoors has merely failed to obey convention. A man talking on the phone in a restaurant is disruptive to those around him.

Some of the shift in manners is in a positive direction. In the heyday of hat etiquette, people smoked everywhere (or such is my understanding from Mad Med and the Twilight Zone). Now, smoking has only slightly more cache than other gaseous emissions.

Seems that once upon a time, we were conditioned to tolerating smoke everywhere we went (pipe, cigar, or cigarette), and it was one of those things that were taken for granted. Now, many folks have quite strong physical and/or verbal reactions to it. Certainly some folks light 'em up when in the company of like-minded or disinterested others, and that's the way it should be. To do so in other social settings might not go so well! I once thought I was going to see a physical altercation between a gentleman enjoying a cigarette at the post office, and a screaming woman who was ready to tear him limb from limb.

You can not put a price on guidance or mentoring. Most people who hear me speak always say the same thing "OH you must be military you say Sir and Ma'am" Not the case My Father and Grandfathers made sure i was polite, and respectful. What people don't understand is the military only teaches you how to speak to Military. I see Sailors everyday that just ..... get my blood pressure up because of how they speak to civilains out in town. No bearing, no civility just very informal speech, bad slang, and rude. and now half the time they are in Uniform. talking and texting while crossing a street. just bad, and unsafe manners. I understand if the conversaion is been going on for a few minutes and all parties are getting in a bad mood (to a point) but you just don't walk up to a person and be rude / disrespectful. Language i'm bad about foul langauge its a habit harder to break than anything i've ever done, but some people make this Sailor look like a Saint. the bright side is being in my current position i spent a lot of time teaching the junior guys and getting reminded of how i need to imporve too.

forward progress just keep the Ship moving forward.

Fair winds and following seas.

Some military can turn it on and off.
I remember running into my very tough and verbally colorful basic training
drill sergeant on base some months after basic had been completed.
He invited me to dinner at his off-base residence. In front of his wife (an Ex-MP)
and his two children, the transformation was miraculous. Nary a bleep word; I
was the one who had to constantly bite my tongue.
It was that night he cried as he told us of the letter he had received from
the parents of one of the truly sweet guys who had been in my basic training
company. The mom and dad had written to tell him of the death of their Gene
within a few weeks after he had arrived in Vietnam. This hard-nosed "Sarge"
was so moved to learn of the combat death of one of "his guys;" unfortunately,
he probably had to learn of many more such tragedies involving soldiers he had
trained and/or fought with over the following six or so years
I bet the next day he resumed the persona of drill sergeant, but with a heavy heart!
Many of us probably adopt a different social mindset/demeanor depending on where,
and with whom, we happen to be!
Train your men well!!

Very touching, and sad. Thanks.

The language thing we see in movies and TV is so gratuitous and inappropriate, it's an affront and an insult directed at the listener. I've been almost everywhere and done almost everything, and I know "good" vulgarity and swearing when I hear it. Actually, when exercised by a skilled and practiced speaker in appropriate company and context, I do enjoy it, and many times, it's hilariously entertaining. It's proper use is an art form, but unfortunately some folks use it only as an expression of hatred or their own stupidity and it comes across as insulting, ignorant and retarded.

It comes from those who don't understand there is such a thing as the wrong kind of attention.

Vulgar and foul language always put me off of people who are unable to express their views without it. I have so little interest in most movies for the same reason ..... and in the workplace, my view is that it isn't appropriate -- full stop. Nor in public for that matter. I don't spit on people, so why should they think that they can take the liberty of figuratively spitting on my ears?

Wendell I just tell them I don't xx@&xx#* care for them speaking to me in that xx+@^*#@ way.

jww wrote:Vulgar and foul language always put me off of people who are unable to express their views without it. I have so little interest in most movies for the same reason ..... and in the workplace, my view is that it isn't appropriate -- full stop. Nor in public for that matter. I don't spit on people, so why should they think that they can take the liberty of figuratively spitting on my ears?

I read one of those absurd listicles the other day that offered a few 'old' rules that you don't really need to follow anymore. One suggestion was that cursing has a certain place in workplace settings - you can make your point better, dontcha know!

Pff. I once had a student tell me it was bovine manure that he was having trouble switching into a class the day before it was to start. Oddly enough I didn't find it difficult to dress him down sans cursing.

jww wrote:Vulgar and foul language always put me off of people who are unable to express their views without it. I have so little interest in most movies for the same reason ..... and in the workplace, my view is that it isn't appropriate -- full stop. Nor in public for that matter. I don't spit on people, so why should they think that they can take the liberty of figuratively spitting on my ears?

Wendell, I agree completely.

Gareth wrote:Well the Royal Air Force taught me hats off indoors, so that's what a I do. I don't wear a hat except when in uniform anyway, but it's a shame to see basic manners like this go the way of the dinosaur.

On another note, I was very surprised last week when visiting a mess at RAF Coningsby how many servicemen were texting and making calls while eating their meal. Of all places, I just didn't expect it in a military mess.

Standards in both military and civilian life have definitely changed in the past few years....

Gareth

The US Army taught me hat etiquette; Hats were not tolerated in any messes or clubs even in Republic of Viet Nam. If you forgot to take off the cover in the club and were spotted you bought the house a drink. It could be a very expensive lesson and a mistake that you only did once.

As for meals arriving at different times: As someone else said it is just bad kitchen management

I am delighted to see this thread! For many years I have had the desire to read the original edition of Emily Post's Etiquette, but I've never gotten around to picking it up.

So now I have gone to Amazon, and what do I see, but that the Kindle edition is free.

http://www.amazon.com/Etiquette-Emily-P ... =etiquette

Emily Post, not there's a voice from the past. Should make for some interesting reading.

I prefer Miss Manners for a more contemporary, but still very proper, take on etiquette, with a good dash of humor thrown in.