Not a Gentlemanly topic

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drmoss_ca
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Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by drmoss_ca »

For any plumbers reading this—why are sewage vent pipes not sealed into a household drainage system? We are the lowest house attached to the municipal sewerage system. The night before last the temperature went up to 11ºC, it rained hard and lots of snow melted. The sewer line backed up into our lateral, and at 2am I watched with horror as the sewage flowed up into our toilets and bathtubs on the ground floor. We baled through the night, but eventually it found a way out into the basement. The waters have receded, and the pipes are not leaking now even when used. Everything is to be torn out, and I am told to expect that the leak was from the foot of the vent pipe which will not be sealed into the household's internal drain pipes. A backflow prevention valve is to be installed today that will stop it happening again, but it wouldn't have been a big problem if the sewage hadn't found a way out. If the vent pipe was sealed at its joint with one of the drains this wouldn't have happened at all. I can't see why that was standard practice at all. If its job is to vent sewer gas from the piping (it goes up and sticks out through a roof), it will surely let the gas vent inside the house too without a sealed joint. Makes no sense to me. The next couple of weeks will be spent with contractors, insurance adjustors, plumbers and other delights. I didn't need to spend a day splashing around in sewage given my low white counts (I still have very few lymphocytes and platelets nearly a year after completing chemo thanks to the prolonged marrow suppression left by fludarabine) but there was no choice.

Chris :cry:
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fallingwickets
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by fallingwickets »

No help or input, but I share your pain. We're on septic here and with all the snow and rain this past week I guess a backup was meant to be and so i share in the horrors of the bailout! Wishing you all the best and a speedy recovery

clive
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by ShadowsDad »

That's just too disgusting a thought to dwell on. But it could lead to some interesting outhouse humor. But I just won't go there.

Makes sense to me that it should be sealed. But I'm not a plumber. Nor do I live in Canada and you'd have your own plumbing code.

If the rationale is that they might need to "get in there" at some point, then they could have used a threaded joint. That's the only explanation I can come up with.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by brothers »

Sounds horrible. So sorry . . . Had one only known in advance, the backflow prevention valve could have been a much cheaper preventative measure. This is a reminder that most of us probably should call a plumber to check to see if we have one, or do or don't need one.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Rufus »

I really feel for you Chris; it must be horrible not to mention gut churning. My daughter and her family experienced a similar backup during a heavy rainstorm and resulting flooding a couple of years ago. The whole finished basement had to be gutted, and furnace, water heater, washer, dryer, freezer and refrig. had to be replaced and most of the childrens' toys had to be chucked out. On the bright side, their insurer responded brilliantly and went out of their way to help cushion the financial and psychological blows.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by jww »

Just plain gross ..... not fun at all to have to go through this kind of experience. We once lived in a property that purposely leaked at the foundation into the basement every year upon the thaw. When I brought it up to the landlord's representative, his only response was, "Oh that happens every year, don't worry about it." Then when the colour started changing and we realized that there was possibly an issue with the septic tank, we moved. Ugh ....
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by J T »

Chris....having been down this road myself, I can only suggest to have the prevent valve installed or keep a pair of Welles handy. While not a plumber, I believe you will be told the house vent is to allow your drains to flow to the sewer system.

Good luck and be well.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by CMur12 »

Chris, I shudder to think of such an experience and I certainly sympathize with your plight, both the horrors of the intrusion and the aftermath. Hopefully, your immune system and your recovery from chemo have not been compromised.

- Murray
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Kyle76 »

Chris, apparently it is not uncommon. We had a leak in the downstairs ceiling of our beach house several years ago. I was sure it was the toilet above that spot, but a plumber checked it and said there was no leak. I then called a woman who does a lot of maintenance for us, and she guessed that the PVC vent pipe of the bathroom upstairs had not been sealed, and a heavy rain had come down the pipe and Leaked above the ceiling. It seems she was right. We tore out some of the ceiling, sealed the pipe and have had no further problems
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Squire »

That shouldn't have happened Chris. Sue the contractor and the city inspector who passed on the work.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Whistler »

Chris, when you say seal the vent pipe do you mean to put a cap on it and glue it to the pipe? Vent pipes are needed so a vacuum is not created in the pipes, if you seal the vent eventually a vacuum will form stopping the flow from leaving your home, you would notice slow running drains and in time low lying drains and toilets will start to back up and all the snaking and plunging in the world will not clear it up, not to mention the vents relieve any sewage odor that happens to enter your system.


Jim, a sewage roof vent should never leak by rain water entering it, water should just flow into your drain and out to the street, the boot around the pipe may have been old and dry rotted allowing water to get in, or the vent pipe below the extension above the roof may not have been glued properly allowing water to seep out from the joint, normally you will find the leak at the first elbow if the pipes were not glued properly.
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Kyle76
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Kyle76 »

Marty, what happened in my case was that the joints in the PVC were not cemented at the fittings. The woman I worked with said it is not uncommon since sewer vent pipes are not under pressure. Apparently, the joints were not fitted tight enough or had worked loose so that a heavy rainfall put enough water doen the 4-inch roof vent to create a leak at an elbow in a wall or ceiling below. I'm thinking Chris's was a similar issue.
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Whistler »

Jim, that would be one way for it to leak when not glued, I would put a rain cap on the vent, not cap it off completely though.
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Kyle76
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by Kyle76 »

Whistler wrote:Jim, that would be one way for it to leak when not glued, I would put a rain cap on the vent, not cap it off completely though.
Marty, since cementing the joints, we have had no problems. That's been several years ago. Those coastal squalls can be pretty severe.
Jim
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by drmoss_ca »

It wasn't a problem of rain getting into the vent pipe (aka 'stink pipe') that goes through the roof. This was a problem of water rising in the sewer pipe until it found a way out in the house before it reached the top of the toilets and tubs. Now that the ceilings and walls in the basement are all torn down I think I can see the problem. The gasket under one toilet gave way (they aren't built for withstanding pressure, and many a toilet functions perfectly well with no gasket at all) and water spread from it onto a bathroom floor, where I could mop it up, but at the same time ran under the vinyl and into a wall. Once in there it could travel a few feet until it found a hole to escape from, which happened to be the hole in the floor that the master bathroom's tub connections go through, and from there it dropped onto the gyproc ceiling of the basement room below. It didn't enter the master bathroom as there are ceramic tiles on that wall right down to floor level and they have cement grouting which is waterproof (which saved the hardwood floor in that bathroom), and must have run along that wall until the tiles ended at the end of the tub, then it turned and ran under the tub and down through the hole in the floor where the tub drain exits into the basement joists.

A $25 backflow valve would have prevented all this. Installation of mine is now delayed until next week as there are special mating pieces to allow it to connect the black ABS internal piping to the white PVC sewer piping (they require different glues). I would urge all house owners who are connected to municipal sewerage systems to consider installing one.

Chris
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Re: Not a Gentlemanly topic

Post by ShadowsDad »

That's no less disgusting Chris.

It ought to be made part of the plumbing code. Really? A $25 part and maybe some glue? A plumber couldn't have figured water pressure at installation? "Let's see... this is lower than that and this could fill up and run out here...". That's what they're supposed to do for a living. Or was it that they thought that the town line was supposed to handle it and the town screwed up? That happens a lot if the town just "eyeballs" things. After all, a surveyor costs money. I would be far beyond angry. But that's because I expect competence. I worked for incompetent people for 23 years and I've had more than my fill of it. But that was there. If they affected my home I'd be, well, far beyond angry. FWIW, I set up our septic system and there's no way that it can back up unless someone flushes a very big cork that gets through a smaller line and expands in a bigger line.

Your writing is far calmer than mine would be.
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