chronic pain relief

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ShadowsDad
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chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:39 pm

I hope this helps someone.

Over a decade ago I had an industrial accident. I got hit in the head with over 50# of steel from a height of 13' (no hard hat) and my neck has been the cause of my chronic pain ever since. I was lucky to be alive. I won't take opioids so that wasn't a consideration. Instead I've been taking 3 naproxin sodium (aka Aleve) tab's 2x per day. That just took the edge off of the pain and not much else. I stopped taking these a week ago and I've been pain free.

Enter Kratom. It's an herb from the far east. It's the dehydrated and powdered leaves of the kratom plant. I put it into OO capsules and in the morning I take 5 of them, then 3 in the afternoon and 3 before going to bed. The result? After over a decade of chronic pain, I'm largely pain free as I sit here and type. I've been pain free for the past week. I still know that something isn't quite right in the neck, but I have no pain. One side effect, I also have allergies and adult asthma. I cough a lot. In the past I controlled the coughing with cherry bark tincture. It works, but tastes horrible. One side effect of taking Kratom is that it suppresses the cough. A 2fer, I like that. It's also my indicator when the kratom is wearing off. I start coughing, and take my next 3 capsules. Kratom can be expensive, but it works. FWIW, I got mine from Kraken. Once you're a customer you'll get offers for substantial discounts.

The next pain reliever I don't have yet, but it's on the way. Soon I'll have dried wild lettuce. It's supposed to be an extremely powerful pain reliever. It has been compared to morphine in it's pain relieving power, but with absolutely no opioid side effects. Too, it won't set off a urine test. I'm really hoping it works. It's a native north American plant and you probably have it growing in your back yard if you have any wild land at all and don't live in a desert. I know I have it growing wild; I've seen it and never knew what it was. If it works I'll plant a crop of it to harvest eventually. Yes, it can be eaten like lettuce as well. Free pain relief with no side effects, and something that I have total control over beats any other type. But right now I'm buying the dried leaf. I paid $12/lb in bulk from AmeriHerb, where we buy a lot of our spices and herbs. I'll use it as a tea. If it works and I harvest my own crop I'll probably juice it and add enough alcohol to preserve it. Of course making a tincture or dehydration will also work.

Both Kratom and wild lettuce are taken orally.

Anyone wanting more information about these pain relievers, google and youtube are your friends.
Brian

Maker of Kramperts Finest Bay Rum and Frostbite http://www.krampertsfinest.com/
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by drmoss_ca » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:18 am

I don't want to spoil things for you but kratom does contain opioids - respiratory depression from high doses is treated with naloxone, proving that its alkaloids bind to opiate receptors! That's why it is becoming a drug of abuse in the west, having long been used as such in Malaysia where it grows. I believe the DEA wants to ban it, and it is already illegal to sell for ingestion in Canada.

C.
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by fallingwickets » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:29 am

No wonder Brian is pain free!......sorry to hear that kratom isnt an option. As a naproxin user your info piqued the curiosity substantially

clive
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ShadowsDad
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:00 am

Did I write that it wasn't an opiate? I missed that if I did. Maybe if my words are taken out of context one would get that, since I was referring to prescribed opiates. I suppose I could have been clearer. The effect of kratom is entirely different as compared to oxycodone for instance (Just vile stuff! At least for me. I can't imagine anyone taking that garbage for fun.) . But it makes big pharma lots of money and that's the entire point of it. Now maybe big pharma would be on board with kratom if they could patent and sell it, but since it's a plant they can't make $ off of it. Since it's not as addictive (used for pain only) they also can't hook folks onto it for long term customers.

I may have found that info about compounds when I researched it, but if so it's slipped my mind. But I do know that wild lettuce has compounds in it that are related to opiates. They have some of the good effects but none of the side effects such as a "high", or constipation, yada, yada. I absolutely hate synthetic "opiates". I can't remember what I was prescribed the one time, but I thought I was dying from them the one time I took them. I took one dose and trashed the rest. It's name is in my medical records; it might have been oxycodone (sp?). No such effect from Kratom and from what I've read no such horrible opiate effects from wild lettuce.

Yes, big pharma also wants to ban kratom in the USA since it cuts into the profit that they make from selling highly addictive drugs to folks. Can't have folks finding solutions that work better for pain and isn't as addictive, after all, there's money to be made. I have even higher hopes for wild lettuce. I can grow it, in fact I can't not grow it since it grows wild and is a weed. But back to kratom, we have lots of veterans in this country who have severe and painful wounds. For many of them kratom is the only thing that works and allows them to function. The FDA was persuaded to back off on a ban of it. FWIW, the FDA did consider banning wild lettuce at one time, then realized that they'd need to defoliate the whole of north America to get the job done. As I already wrote, it grows most everywhere, and the seed is also airborne. So banning it would be like banning dirt.

I'm not totally down on opiates if they are truly needed. Like the time I shattered my right wrist. That first night an angel would come to my bedside and give me an injection of morphine. The pain disappeared for a time so that I could get some sleep, then I'd be awake and in pain waiting for the next injection. At the time for the last injection I mentioned that I'd been waiting for her, had been in pain, yada,yada, and she told me I should have mentioned something sooner as she could have doubled the dose. That morphine was highly welcome on that night. Tylenol3 also worked for when I was out of the hospital, but that's a far cry from oxycodone. And folks take that crap for kicks... I just don't get it.
Brian

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by EL Alamein » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Brian, sorry to hear of the chronic pain but glad you're finding a way to deal with it.

Chris

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:00 pm

Thanks Chris. You understood and didn't piss on the parade. Lots of folks have chronic pain and big pharmas solutions are just the pits IMO. My goal was to help folks with chronic pain. Knowledge is good stuff to have and not to stifle. It's why this forum exists last I heard. Anyway spreading knowledge was my goal so as to help others.

My civilian Dr is open minded when it comes to this stuff. I have yet to even meet my VA (veterans administration) Dr. But I did contact the VA to see if they have kratom in the formulary. I have yet to hear back from them. I'd be surprised if they don't have it since the vet's were responsible for keeping kratom in the USA. I'll know more in a day or 2 as it regards the VA; I'm expecting a call back. I'm checking my blood pressure to make sure it isn't upsetting that. That's about all I can test for at home. But I see no change in that. I think I seem to notice a sort of an amphetamine effect from it, but it's mild and not at all a full blown meth amphetimine effect. But that could just be from no longer feeling pain 24/7. I just don't know. I have no trouble sleeping but I want to stay up later than normal.

Clive, kratom may not be an option if you're in Canada, but wild lettuce would be. It simply can't be banned without defoliating the entire land mass. Even then defoliation can't work because it's an airborne seed and "they" can't defoliate things fast enough to wipe it out. That's if folks stood still for the defoliation, which they won't. :) The defoliated land is exactly what the weed likes so it would flourish bigtime. Youtube is your friend with identification. I have no doubt that unless you live in a desert, that it grows near to you. No one will complain about you picking their weeds. It's a distinctive weed; nothing else that I've ever seen looks remotely like it, and I've seen a lot of weeds up close. If you can't find any live plants the seeds are available on ebay inexpensively.

But wait for my evaluation of the dried herb that I have on order. I won't BS you, if it works for me I'll tell you and if it doesn't I'll also tell you. I balk at buying weed seeds but to get a crop this year, if it works, will be worth the few $ for the seeds. Otherwise I'd wait for this years seeds for a 2019 crop but should it work waiting a year (and being in pain) doesn't interest me. I like being pain free and it's worth a few bucks to get it after all these years. I'm sort of enjoying this and I'm still working on my dosage levels. I know that the kratom works (I'm pain and cough free as I write), I have high hopes for the wild lettuce. Yes, it can be eaten like lettuce. And like just cut leaf lettuce it has a white latex sap that also gives it the name opium lettuce (the opium poppy bleeds white sap). But I understand that it's bitter if eaten. It was the forebear of modern leaf lettuce, but the medicinal and bitterness was bred out of it. If it works I intend to eat a lot of wild lettuce salads this summer. Most years I have a lot of it growing in the "waste areas" of my land. Then this autumn I'll harvest the crop. My intention is to put it through the juicer and add alcohol to bring the sap to >20% to preserve it. Of course I'll need to figure out the dosage. But lots of other folks use the dehydrated sap and there is no known dosage for that that I've ever run across. That's all subject to it actually working for pain relief. Fingers crossed.

Recently I have seen dry wild lettuce for sale on Amazon. I didn't even look at the price.
Brian

Maker of Kramperts Finest Bay Rum and Frostbite http://www.krampertsfinest.com/
Or find it here: Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, Barclay Crocker, The Old Town Shaving Company at Stats, Maggard Razors; Leavitt & Peirce, Harvard Square

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by brothers » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:17 am

Bryan, this is a fascinating topic. I confess that I've always wondered why I keep seeing those fast growing ugly weeds that keep coming up in places I don't expect to see them. Sometimes I can pull them up but if they get a good start, their tap roots are too deep in the ground and they just break off. Now that I know what I have, I'll be looking more into this.
Gary

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by drmoss_ca » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:35 pm

Again, I don't want to spoil things (or 'piss on your parade'), but opiates are opiates. Sure some are natural (opium, papaveretum, codeine) and some are synthetic modifications of those molecules (demerol, heroin, hydrocodone) but they all have the same effects to a greater or lesser degree (technically, an opiate is natural, and an opioid is synthetically altered. The word 'narcotic' is used by pharmacologists to cover both. 'Narcotic' is not used by pharmacologists for other classes of sedative drugs, only the descendants of the white poppy, unlike the people who write laws and don't understand pharmacology.) They bind to various opiate receptors in the brain and spinal cord, causing analgesia, drowsiness, sweating, tachycardia, nausea, constipation, dizziness and euphoria. Some are better than others at a particular effect, such as the relatively poor analgesic effects of demerol and oxycodone versus their marked euphoric effects. We have well-established equivalence ratios (1mg hydrocodone=8mg morphine=15mg codeine etc) and all are addictive to a degree based upon that equivalence. I don't know about kratom on that scale, as you are dealing with a natural product that may vary from sample to sample as to the active alkaloid content (just as foxglove tea varied dangerously when William Withering first used the digitalis glycosides in it for the dropsy (CHF) in the late 1700's). However, the point is this: kratom berries are as wonderful and safe as the sap from white poppies. Yes, they can be both wonderful and safe, but have to be used carefully and with full awareness of the side-effects. If it binds to an opiate receptor it is addictive. It's absolutely none of my business what you do, and I understand that, but I would warn other readers that these things are not without risk.

I do agree that pharmaceutical companies have manipulated doctors into prescribing narcotics in ways that we were once taught was both wrong and dangerous, and they did this out of greed. That was despicable, but it doesn't make non-commercial opiates any safer, it just makes them cheaper and unregulated. I hope you feel well, comfortable and remain safe and free from unwanted effects.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by brothers » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:08 pm

drmoss_ca wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:35 pm
. . . . I hope you feel well, comfortable and remain safe and free from unwanted effects.
Definitely!
Gary

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:28 am

I'll update this as I have more use data fr the wild lettuce. I just need to go pick it up.

In the meantime, here's something to read. Excellent news, IMO.
https://www.newsmax.com/health/health-n ... id/845777/
Brian

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Or find it here: Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, Barclay Crocker, The Old Town Shaving Company at Stats, Maggard Razors; Leavitt & Peirce, Harvard Square

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by EL Alamein » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:14 pm

Brian, my only wish is to know you are well and getting better. Please let us know how you fair.

I worked for Big Pharma for more than a decade but in their IT departments (several companies). The motto was "Better living through chemistry". They would run these education workshops for us so we would be advocates despite the fact that we had no knowledge of the products and how they worked. I would stay afterward and query the scientists they employed about what they taught us. They were polite and answered my questions. I never really understood what they were saying because I am not a trained medical professional. Honestly the only practical thing I ever walked away from those discussions was that I should buy the cheapest toothpaste available because they all believed that the value was in the brushing not the product.

One of my best friends is a doctor of Chinese medicine and I don't really understand what she tells me. She works in cooperation with Western doctors not against them. Her mother was diagnosed with cancer and she worked with her mother's doctors and eventually her mother was cured of it. The doctor's credited her cooperation with her mother's cure and encouraged her to document what she did to help others. They couldn't explain it, neither can I. Was it her or the placebo effect? I don't know. There are many other anecdotal stories I have heard that have achieved success through many different means.

What I have drawn from my own extremely limited exposure is that there may be many different roads to Rome. I believe Dr. Moss has your best interests at heart and he is giving sound advice and shouldn't be discounted but taken in consideration to have your best well being at his concern. In the end we have all got to chose a path to Rome and I hope whatever you do gets you there, happy and healthy.

Be well, my friend. I support you in whatever you do.

Chris

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:35 pm

Thanks Chris, he didn't come across that way to me. Anyone experiencing chronic pain has a red letter day when they are suddenly pain free and not drugged up to the gills. I've been pain free for many days now and the medical community had no hand in it. The irony of the situation wasn't lost on me. Maybe a face to face exchange would have been better, but that won't/can't happen. I have yet to run it by my Dr. but he has an open mind about such things because he knows me and has for years. He would also be happy that I'm finally pain free and express that. Then after expressing happiness he might move to the cautions. But he knows that I'm not a child and regularly allows me access to narcotics when I ask so that I have them on hand when they are required for other conditions. But I'm very choosy about what I use and when. In fact I had to request it and tell him how I intended to use it, which was not the way what I requested is normally used. It needs to be a last resort sort of thing and I always take the minimum to get the job done. I always try herbal first but even those aren't without a cost. He nearly shit his britches when I told him what I was using for a cough suppressant and the chemical that it had in it. But it works better than codeine; faster and with no narcotic side effects.

Anyway, today I picked up the dry wild lettuce and immediately made a weak tea when I got it home since the morning kratom was wearing off. It appeared to have some effect as I was ion much less pain as I would have been with 3 naproxin sodium. Hours later the pain level stayed there and my time for the evening dose (understand I'm still learning about wild lettuce so it's the schedule I would need with the kratom) came. I made a stronger tea and I'm REALLY pain free even now almost 6 hours later. It was rather unpleasant to drink - quite bitter- but tolerable. I need to back the strength down. My plan is to spend the next few days trying to standardize what I take by measuring and weighing things and gauging my pain. At this time I intend to make a 3-4 mug batch of tea and go from there. Take the 1st warm mug in the morning before breakfast as I make it to allow it to "soak in" before eating. Same as I did with the Kratom caps. See what I need throughout the day, drinking the tea cold as required, and work things out. FWIW, the tea, unless made strong, has a pleasant taste. But bitterness is easy to solve. I just don't think I'm going to need to make it that strong again.

I did check with the VA formulary and talked to one of their people today. The woman claimed that I will have a withdrawal when getting off the kratom. Maybe that's why I had a runny nose and warm flashes this afternoon. I welcome that instead of the pain. Anyone who has ever had chronic pain knows exactly what I mean. Maybe the answer is to swap off between kratom and wild lettuce weekly. Yeah, I'm still playing with it. But I know that I never want to go back to what I had even if I turn into a wild lettuce junky. I think the chance of that is very slim though. I know that I'm not willing to take big pharmas solution because that is truly hell in a pill, at least for me. BTW, the VA formulary has neither kratom or wild lettuce in it because it's unregulated, but they would give me oxycodone or oxycontin. No thanks; there's too much I need to do that isn't possible when on that crap. At some point the patient needs to be an adult, stand up, and pass on those solutions and strike out on their own to find solutions that aren't taught in big pharmas med' schools. Your story underlines that. I can easily function on either kratom or wild lettuce, I'm not "narcotic'ed up" and I'm out of pain. But I intend to concentrate on wild lettuce since it definitely works for me and I can grow it to be in complete control in more than one way.

I can write about what I'm doing but everyone experiences pain differently. It makes sense to me that other folks would also have different solutions. As the VA told me, the herbs that I'm using aren't regulated. When I use the fresh growing wild lettuce in a few months I'll need to figure things out all over again. But that should be for the last time since I intend to grow it as a crop. That should be easy (to grow) since it's a weed. :)

I really do appreciate your well wishes Chris. Right now I'm feeling absolutely fantastic and I can't express to you just how wonderful it feels to be pain free and to not be drugged up senseless.

It works for other things also and not just for pain. I was hoping it would and it certainly seems to. But I'm still making notes on the other uses for it. I want to make sure that I'm not getting a placebo effect before I write about the other uses. I'll post pages from the herbal book I use. So far I absolutely agree with what was written in it, at least as it pertains to me. Maybe tomorrow I'll do that.
Brian

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:10 am

Here is the page from my herbal book. The drawing is unsuitable for identification.
Image

Last night I took a strong mug of the tea and at 11:00 this AM I was still pain free, so I'm backing down on the strength.
Brian

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Or find it here: Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, Barclay Crocker, The Old Town Shaving Company at Stats, Maggard Razors; Leavitt & Peirce, Harvard Square

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:11 am

Actually, today I'm backing down the tea strength by 50%. I'll still take a 10 ounce mug of it.

Still pain free. I did take a 10 ounce mug of the stronger tea (1/2 cup in 40 ounces of water) when I awoke this morning to finish it. If the weaker tea doesn't work at the 10 ounce rate I'll just have some more.

I don't know if I mentioned it but I haven't touched any kratom since beginning with the wild lettuce.
Brian

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:58 pm

FWIW, our lady friend who placed the order for "the local group" of herbalists overdid playing with her grandchild during the day and at bedtime her hips were hurting her bigtime. She was in for a night of pain every time she turned over, from her prior experience. But she took a fairly potent dose of wild lettuce tea from what I was able to gather over the phone. She was in pain upon going to bed. 1/2 hour later she turned over and then it hit her... no pain. BTW, she hated the flavor, but she made it far too strong.

I inquired about her "mind set"... no euphoria, no noticeable narcotic effects. She was still who she was before taking it, just without pain. That's precisely what I get from it too. She did have a sleepless night but she doesn't know if it was due to the wild lettuce or if it was just one of those nights which according to her she gets from time to time. I notice no ill sleep effects from it. Maybe strange dreams that I remember but it's far too early to claim that as a side effect of the wild lettuce. I know that I won't be without it. I intend to buy some seed and more of the dried herb (I don't intend to wait one growing season to grow a full crop of it) and I won't run out before this years wild crop starts to grow.

Basically, this is the pain reliever that big pharma wishes they could patent (supposedly). But of course they can't since it grows everywhere and their patent would be totally useless. So they ignore it. Not enough profit in it. I won't go further down that road but it leads to potential addiction from what they produce. If anyone hasn't figured it out by now I have absolutely no faith in big pharma. I have far more faith in myself and what is provided to us by the Almighty in his pharmacopeia. Used for medical reasons of course and not for "other" reasons. Yes, I'm aware that opium is part of the natural pharmacopeia. Used in it's proper role it's absolutely fine. Used for other purposes not so much.
Brian

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by brothers » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:55 am

Well said Brian. I agree. I will probably not be a user of the wild lettuce, simply for the fact that I don't have chronic pain at this particular time. But I do appreciate the new found information on this very interesting subject.
Gary

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:56 am

Gary, I hope you never have chronic pain. But the information is there if anyone around you ever needs it.

I wish I had possessed the knowledge for a friend who committed suicide and had been on really heavy duty big pharma pain killers for many years. He really had no life for all of those years.
Brian

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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by drmoss_ca » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:47 pm

I'm no friend of "Big Pharma" when they try to seduce me into unwise or unnecessary prescribing. Indeed I used to run a website devoted to the shenanigans of drug reps. I remember scanning one of those free notepads they would hand out. This one was for Frosst 222's (codeine and ASA):

Image

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This was bizarre and rather gruesome imagery, and I doubt if it worked to increase sales.

BUT, I do have to say that I know full well that I would have died in a rather unpleasant fashion from enormous lymph nodes compressing my airway by the end of 2014, were it not for my three friends: fludarabine, cyclophosphamide and rituximab, all of which were developed and sold by Big Pharma. The first cycle of treatment dissolved 9lb worth of lymph nodes. Certainly not pleasant to undergo, and loaded with unwanted effects - I may yet die of another cancer to which those treatments predispose me (Yay! Bladder cancer from cyclophosphamide! Never mind the general increase in all cancers for those who enjoyed this treatment), but I did survive the nasty septic episode that occurred halfway through the six cycles. I'm still here, three and a half years later, so even if the drugs do cause some other issue, I have still won. Since I have gone 2+ years since treatment, when the inevitable relapse occurs the first choice will be to repeat them, and if that doesn't work I shall move onto other products of Big Pharma, and be very grateful to do so. So would you, and so would we all. It's fine to rail against them for their very real sins, but it is still true that drugs can save your life, and few of us would decline on the basis of some feeling of delicacy, so we ought not to condemn the pharmaceutical industry outright.

Prescription drug abuse requires a few conditions for it to occur, including, but not limited to, the following:
-prescription of drugs when not indicated, or for longer periods or higher doses than necessary
-a failure of the prescriber to be aware of the risk and of the early signs that the drugs are causing dependence
-a patient who is happy to take the drugs and unwittingly becomes addicted, or..
-a patient who deliberately chooses to obtain such drugs for his own use or for resale
-no external monitoring of the prescription of controlled substances

and is associated very, very strongly with certain social conditions:
-poverty
-rural environments (that's a surprise to most people!)
-unemployment
-ex-military personnel with diagnosed or undiagnosed PTSD and related conditions
-family history of addiction disorders, which seems to be transmitted genetically as an inability to know when enough is enough (that might be a preference for rising levels of intoxication over absolute level of intoxication) and also as a tendency to turn to chemical assistance when life gets rough

Should you combine the first set of medical factors along with the second set of social factors, it will take just a tiny little spark of drug company suggestion that- for example - "pain deserves relief" - and you have an explosion on your hands. The preventive solution to all this is difficult. It's easy to stop drug companies promoting drugs, if you have a legislature that is not in thrall to them. It's easy to change tack in medical continuing education and tell docs that opiates are bad and just for acute usage. But making your population less prone to abuse - that's really, really hard. You have to find them jobs. They have to find some form of meaning in their lives that make the temporary oblivion of drugs less attractive than successful sobriety, and generally this means a solid perception of upward social mobility. Yes, you can try to cut them off from illegal opiates, but the 'war on drugs' hasn't exactly been a success, and I see no reason to think it ever will be one. Removing the desire for those drugs would work far better, and that means giving people adequate lives without drugs, and that's a political issue that remains elusive. I don't know if voters in America really have had the choice of voting for any candidate that would have addressed that properly. I am biting my tongue quite hard at this point as I'm not supposed to introduce any political discussion into a shaving forum. The message is that, as always, it takes two to tango. A willing, inappropriate prescriber, and a willing, inappropriate consumer.

It seems just a bit simplistic to say that the answer to all of this is wild lettuce. Before any rational prescriber or consumer ought to believe that, we would need exact chemical analyses of all the active alkaloids in the dried preparation, all sorts of studies about what effects they might have on this, that, and numerous other physiological parameters, side effect profiles and so on. As a basic pharmacology starting point, does anyone know the LD50 of wild lettuce? That has never been studied, but it still seems preferable to taking anything that has been properly studied and documented? Give me a break.

Now, two quotes:
El Alamein wrote: I believe Dr. Moss has your best interests at heart and he is giving sound advice and shouldn't be discounted but taken in consideration to have your best well being at his concern.
and
ShadowsDad wrote:Thanks Chris, he didn't come across that way to me.
Attempting to guide you or anyone else towards proper medical or pharmacological care here is secondary to me. I have as my main responsibility as the admin here to prevent SMF from being sued for promoting incorrect or dangerous advice. I may have wasted several hours trying to steer you away from those dangers, and you may choose to revile me for my efforts. That's all well and good, and I am completely happy to let you do what you want. You are not my patient, and can never be as I have given up my license while I wait for my leukemia to return, so you are free to continue to carry on doing just as you wish. I may choose to prevent further discussion if you appear to be promoting acts that are illegal (kratom already is in many jurisdictions, including mine), or medically unwise. You will be free, even on this site, to post any rebuttals you want. I don't mind a bit if you hate me, even if you don't have a valid argument. You may still post your hatred here and I won't delete it unless you try to steer others into dangerous territory. Might I suggest you keep your non-shaving experiments to yourself?

C.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace

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ShadowsDad
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by ShadowsDad » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:05 pm

I don't hate you and I never said that. You just wrote that and only you wrote it. My thrust of this thread is chronic pain relief. Big pharma clearly doesn't have the answer that leads to quality of life (of course IMO). Not long ago I lost a friend to his own hand. He was in severe and chronic pain for many years. I don't know if pain was the trigger for him offing himself, but I'm fairly certain that it wasn't a reason found on the "why I should live" side of the balance sheet. I wish I had known of wild lettuce sooner. Hence this thread to allow people to make their own choice.

Edit: I just checked the link... Ha Ha. But again, I don't hate you. It will see no use at all. I really don't care for big pharmas solution to pain.
Brian

Maker of Kramperts Finest Bay Rum and Frostbite http://www.krampertsfinest.com/
Or find it here: Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, Barclay Crocker, The Old Town Shaving Company at Stats, Maggard Razors; Leavitt & Peirce, Harvard Square

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drmoss_ca
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Re: chronic pain relief

Post by drmoss_ca » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:06 pm

I will ask Vince to weigh in, as I don't want SMF exposed to risk. You may not see that as an issue, but it is the only issue that matters on this site.

C.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace

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