Guns

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TRBeck
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Re: Guns

Post by TRBeck »

Not offended. Just don't understand what armed conflict you think you're going to get into. Lots of posts in this thread about protests and such, so perhaps I incorrectly assumed that's the direction you were headed with your post as well.

As an aside, LA's budget for police is 1.5 billion dollars, which is the single largest line item in the city's budget and represents 14 percent of projected expenditures. I imagine the mentioned budget cuts - less than 10 percent - are survivable.
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Tim

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Re: Guns

Post by brothers »

There are several members who've acknowledged they own firearms for their own protection, just in case. So far I'm the only one who's posted who states I don't own one.
Last edited by brothers on Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TRBeck
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Re: Guns

Post by TRBeck »

Gary, I'm sorry you felt confronted. You were the only person who has mentioned planning for "armed combat," which is what I was responding to.
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Tim

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Re: Guns

Post by brothers »

Sounds fair. I've been in combat and I know what it's like to point and shoot at armed aggressors as they shoot back. You see my reluctance to take up arms.
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TRBeck
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Re: Guns

Post by TRBeck »

I can certainly understand owning firearms for personal protection, hunting, and/or sport. I married into a family of firearms enthusiasts and have learned over time to appreciate and enjoy it.

I also understand and appreciate a reluctance to engage in combat. I don't understand the degree to which some folks (of every political stripe) seem to be itching for it. Not to say you are one of them, only that I see and hear lots of talk about an imminent war, often with an eager and approving tone.

I don't object to anyone's owning as many weapons as they want. I'd be a hypocrite if I did.
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Tim

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Re: Guns

Post by brothers »

Eager and approving is a pretty good indication of someone who has not engaged in a gunfight. It's probably the last thing anyone in their right mind hopes to experience in their lifetime. (Other than someone who openly brandishes a deadly weapon when they believe the person(s) they intend to shoot is not armed and not expecting to die.)
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Re: Guns

Post by drmoss_ca »

Glad you guys decided to grow up and use your words. I've closed the reports about the posts.

And to return to the topic, both national newspapers in Canada had prominent headlines about 'defunding police forces' today. That appalls me. It's bad enough that the snowflakes tell us all what to think, but when they tell me our society will get by just fine with no police at all I have to object! Maybe I'm a little bad tempered, having been awoken by one of those horrible cellphone alerts at full volume at 11.58pm last night that told me that an armed and dangerous inmate had escaped from custody a few miles away. No doubt if we had no police force I would not have been awoken. Nor would he have been recaptured by 7am this morning by the efforts of hundreds of uniformed officers. Where's the effing common sense in all this?

We just had a madman shoot 22 people right here in my part of NS. No one warned us he was on the loose. I get we will have to have warnings about lost hamsters and everything for a while until the Mounties regain face. I can cope. But having some 'critical studies' academics tell me everything will be utopian without police just makes me want to give them a good kicking. I like our police. They are generally decent people who I have cared for, medically, for thirty years. Undoubtedly human, and I won't go into the stories, but invaluable to us all. We want them, we need them, and we need then far more than we need loonies who think we will be just fine without them. On the other hand, arming everyone and telling them to get on with it isn't going to work so well. Buy your guns if you like. Use them responsibly. Store them safely. Just don't even begin to think any of you are Marshal Will Kane in High Noon.
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Re: Guns

Post by fallingwickets »

35 thumbs up
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Re: Guns

Post by brothers »

Defunding (abolishing) local police is an ignorant concept. The fact is that states have rights that may or may not be chosen (by the state) to reserve to themselves. A state relinquishing any of the delegated powers simply tosses that power back to other state agencies or the Fed. The vacuum won't be tolerated and will simply revert back to such entities that can enforce law and protect the citizenry in the absence of a local police entity. I'd rather have my friends and neighbors enforcing our local laws as opposed to some other entity that may have different motives and means to protect the citizens from one another. There's an old saying that goes something like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

Let it be said also that any law enforcement person who is hurting or murdering the population should be drawn and quartered. How does such an individual be permitted to roam about under the guise of enforcing law when they're actually committing heinous crimes against the most vulnerable citizens who are asked to trust them? Competent leadership is gravely needed.
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Re: Guns

Post by Rufus »

brothers wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:58 am Defunding (abolishing) local police is an ignorant concept. The fact is that states have rights that may or may not be chosen (by the state) to reserve to themselves. A state relinquishing any of the delegated powers simply tosses that power back to other state agencies or the Fed. The vacuum won't be tolerated and will simply revert back to such entities that can enforce law and protect the citizenry in the absence of a local police entity. I'd rather have my friends and neighbors enforcing our local laws as opposed to some other entity that may have different motives and means to protect the citizens from one another. There's an old saying that goes something like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

Let it be said also that any law enforcement person who is hurting or murdering the population should be drawn and quartered. How does such an individual be permitted to roam about under the guise of enforcing law when they're actually committing heinous crimes against the most vulnerable citizens who are asked to trust them? Competent leadership is gravely needed.
I don’t understand the concept of ‘defunding’. The devil is in the detail and I have yet to hear a clear and comprehensive description by the proponents of what they are proposing. I hope it doesn’t spawn thoughts of vigilantism: be careful what you wish for. Bad policing can be fixed with appropriate leadership, training, recruitment, funding and personnel management. But it’s going to take commitment to get it right from the police force, the politicians, the police unions and the community. Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water.
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Re: Guns

Post by Sam »

i got the sig p365 . They had a tac verion that had 3 twelve round magazines, whereas it usually comes with just 2 ten roundd mags. And it came with a holster. Tac version was only $30 more than the regular, What the twelve round mag does is to extend the grip to the same length as the 365 XL One twelve round mag is $40 or so, and I read where many shooters want the higher capacity so they might have bought the twelve round as an aftger market item

GLocks shot nice and I shot a 43x better than the longer barrelled 48. THe Sig I got has a slightly shorter barrel than its XL counterpart. ALready shot 150 rounds through it. Now to learn to clean it

My wife's Shield EZ sure does rack easier and the magazines are easier to loadd
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Re: Guns

Post by brothers »

Sam, I found a video review of the one you got. I know nothing about these, but it appears that you made a good choice.
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Re: Guns

Post by ShadowsDad »

SIG makes a good gun.
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ichabod
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Re: Guns

Post by ichabod »

Chris,

my son was assaulted by a police officer when he was in Middle School. I mean, my son was actually in the school, during the school day, on his way to class, playing with a friend of his, being a kid in middle school. We made a complaint and the officer apologised in the most unapologetic manner he could think of to my son for over reacting. I'm sure he's a lovely guy when he goes to the doctor though. I'm equally sure he's likely done it again since. The assaulting, not necessarily the apologising. Not every kid he picks on will be the kid of an attorney (my wife) and a raging asshole (me). I'm happy to say that it looks like Denver School Board has decided not to have police in the schools any more.

I think you're being a little disingenuous when you claim to think that "defund the police" means we're not going to have any law enforcement. It means we need a fundamental re-think of how police in the USA (not sure about Canada) approach enforcing the law. A fundamental rethink about why police around the USA have showed up to peaceful protests with tanks and body armor. A fundamental rethink as to why the reaction of a group of Denver Police officers to a man who objected to them shooting at his car (paintballs filled with chemical weaponry, I'm sure there's a technical term - "pepperballs"?) and pregnant passenger was to shoot even more. A fundamental rethink as to why a Denver police officer felt like it was okay to shoot a phone out of a kid's hand because he had the temerity to film the group of officers. A fundamental rethink as to why police officers appear to approach any situation in the recent protests with a quick spray of chemical weaponry before anything else. Why they feel it's okay to post to Instagram comments like "off to start a riot". (That one was fired, but he stands a very good chance of being reinstated, based on DPD's track record). It's a problem, and "defund the police" is an approach that signifies the beginning of a negotiation about police roles and responsibilities, and police accountability.

I think a lot of people would counter the examples I gave above with something about people should learn how to deal with the police. "What does he expect to happen when he yells at a group of cops with pepper guns?". I think a reasonable expectation might be not to get shot at for yelling. The armed men in that video show themselves up horrendously, and they're the law enforcement officers. Anyone who reads the example of my son and starts a response with any sort of "should have known better" reasoning - I'd like to hear from you a list of things that a middle schooler (unarmed, abviously) might do that would warrant a physical assault from an adult, let alone a supposedly trained professional. Defund the police can also mean spend less of our taxes on weapons and more on training how to defuse situations and deal with people in high stress situations.

The examples I gave above are all from Denver, Colorado. It's where I live, so I'm looking at it from a local point of view. I've been horrified by the response but it has been very enlightening.

There are some people calling to abolish the police. I'm sure we all know the difference though.
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Re: Guns

Post by drmoss_ca »

"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
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ichabod
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Re: Guns

Post by ichabod »

Nice to be here :D

I read quite a bit still, just rarely respond.

That's an article about abolishing the police. That's a different subject, as I mentioned.

Interesting read though. The author brings up defunding briefly to dismiss it. It reads to me like it was written to start a debate though.
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Re: Guns

Post by fallingwickets »

nice to see you out and about. Sorry about your son, an experience I bet he'll never forget and one that will leave him suspicious of l. enforcement forever. I for one am glad people are starting to stand-up to the thuggery. One big plus in NY for example:

https://www.innocenceproject.org/in-a-h ... y-records/

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Re: Guns

Post by ichabod »

Clive - yeah, I think the idea to put "School Resource Officers" into schools did more to poison the relationship between cops and future adults than anything positive it achieved. I also think the protests are getting stronger as people around my son's age become adults and start asking questions based on their experiences.
Give us the luxuries, and we will forgo the necessities.
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Re: Guns

Post by ThePossum »

Living in a small town in South Western Pennsylvania we do not have problems that I have seen on the news when it comes to police brutality and overzealousness when doing their jobs. I go see though the major problem with policing in much larger communities and big cities. There seems to be a whole lot of racial profiling by the police and even citizens making calls to the police.
It is my wish that rather than defunding the police departments, we as citizens must make them accountable for their actions while on the job. When a community is hiring police officers there must be more extensive background checks and those candidates who have been disciplined on previous jobs need to stricken from the candidates list.
In addition the police must be taught that chokeholds and other excessive use of force must be eliminated. I could go on and on but that is unnecessary, you guys get the gist of what I am saying.
One more thing is the militarization of the police. You look at all the former military equipment that was meant to be used in war are coming to the police from the US Government.
Finally, about the demonstrations that are going on around the world. We need to join hands and spread the idea of peace and love instead of hate toward others who are different from us.
If I have offended anyone with this post I do apologize and the moderators my delete this post.
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Re: Guns

Post by Rufus »

ThePossum wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:50 am Living in a small town in South Western Pennsylvania we do not have problems that I have seen on the news when it comes to police brutality and overzealousness when doing their jobs. I go see though the major problem with policing in much larger communities and big cities. There seems to be a whole lot of racial profiling by the police and even citizens making calls to the police.
It is my wish that rather than defunding the police departments, we as citizens must make them accountable for their actions while on the job. When a community is hiring police officers there must be more extensive background checks and those candidates who have been disciplined on previous jobs need to stricken from the candidates list.
In addition the police must be taught that chokeholds and other excessive use of force must be eliminated. I could go on and on but that is unnecessary, you guys get the gist of what I am saying.
One more thing is the militarization of the police. You look at all the former military equipment that was meant to be used in war are coming to the police from the US Government.
Finally, about the demonstrations that are going on around the world. We need to join hands and spread the idea of peace and love instead of hate toward others who are different from us.
If I have offended anyone with this post I do apologize and the moderators my delete this post.
Makes a great deal of sense to me.
Bryan
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