Kind of confused.

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GQGuy
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Kind of confused.

Post by GQGuy »

Hello all! I have a question that I keep mulling over and need your help with. I've noticed on some posts that some of you like brushless creams such as Menscience, Jack Black Beard Lube, Sharps, Grooming Lounge, etc.

My question for you is do you think that brushless creams such as these can provide as good of a shave as you can achieve with a traditional English style cream such as Taylors, T&H, Trumpers, etc? I am asking aside from the fact that you miss out on the scents etc...would a person still get the same shave? Or is there something about lathering creams that tend to work a tad better?

I know there are several schools of thought on this...For example, I know that JB, and Grooming Lounge tend to say that you do not need to have a lathering cream...that it's a matter of preference. I get this, especially for those people that do not want to take the time to use a brush, etc. But what if I am willing to take the time...are there any other advantages/disadvantages? You guys who also use brushless creams or have tried any of these products please weigh in as well.

Btw - I tend to have slightly sensitive skin...does one method over another seem to change what you would advise?

Thoughts/ Comments?

Thank you for your help!
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prism
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Post by prism »

GQ, I have to say that I have never used a brushless cream. For years, I used Clubman canned foam. The shaves were alright, the fragrance pleasant. Nothing beats the feeling of painting on a whipped lather of luxury shave cream with a brush! To me, things like canned goo, brushless creams and cartridge razors reduce shaving to a daily chore. The shave I get using a brush is superior to anything I got from using a can. Also, the bristles of the brush do help work the cream into your skin, rather than just slathering a layer over your skin for your blade(s) to glide across. Sometimes the old ways are the best, and shaving is no exception! Welcome to SMF! :D Vic
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mantic
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Re: Kind of confused.

Post by mantic »

GQGuy wrote:...My question for you is do you think that brushless creams such as these can provide as good of a shave as you can achieve with a traditional English style cream such as Taylors, T&H, Trumpers, etc? I am asking aside from the fact that you miss out on the scents etc...would a person still get the same shave? Or is there something about lathering creams that tend to work a tad better?...
Speaking for myself, now that I have my technique down I can get a shave with a brushless product almost as good as a traditional product (using a Mach3; never tried it with a DE). I can tell the difference but its perfectly acceptable to the rest of the world. For me the important issue is the extra ingredients the brushless products have that provide artificial lubrication and topical anethsetics (sp?). My complexion is lousy enough as it is (age is really making itself known) and I appreciate the more skin-friendly ingredients of the traditional products. Scent and feel are icing on the cake. 8)

--Mark
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Re: Kind of confused.

Post by notthesharpest »

GQGuy wrote:I know there are several schools of thought on this...For example, I know that JB, and Grooming Lounge tend to say that you do not need to have a lathering cream...that it's a matter of preference. I get this, especially for those people that do not want to take the time to use a brush, etc. But what if I am willing to take the time...are there any other advantages/disadvantages? You guys who also use brushless creams or have tried any of these products please weigh in as well.

Btw - I tend to have slightly sensitive skin...does one method over another seem to change what you would advise?
1. I am suspicious of the ... I don't know what I should call them ... well, the type of companies that you have mentioned anyway. I see them as products made to suit the marketing department first, and the customer second.

2. Try them if you're interested. That's the best advice.
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Zaniix
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Post by Zaniix »

I think Kissmyface is a good cream that does not require a brush.

In general I find brushless creams to be a way of saving time not imrpoving the quality of the shave. From what I have seen on the board you could ask that questin to every member and get a differant answer everytime. it is liek asking what you think your fingerprints will look like.
Chris
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Post by Leisureguy »

Given the YMMVness of shaving, probably the only way to settle this for your own technique, beard, and skin is to try the two products, side by side. I can give you how it works for me (traditional products win) but that doesn't tell you what it will do for you.
GQGuy
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Post by GQGuy »

Thanks guys...you all make a lot of sense. I realize too that what works best for one person may not for another.

I guess what made me curious was that there are in fact all of these newer companies out there who are creating more of a brushless product, i.e. Anthony, Grooming Lounge, JB, Sharps, Billy Jealousy, etc...and they tend to say these are more of the newer technology based creams. As I said, they tend to try to convince us that these are even better for your skin, and that a brush is not required. In fact, they go so far to say that they do not believe that a lot of lather is necessary.

On the other end, you see companies like Art of Shaving, eShave, T& H who are working to bring old school (classic shaving back to life)...and in my opinion are almost saying the dead opposite, that to get truly the best shave you need a high lathering cream, and brush.

Again, taking preference factors as to what feels the best, whether or not you take the time or not out of the equation what would most people say would truly give you the closest shave, and is best for your skin?
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paperpundit
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Post by paperpundit »

Mr. Guy

I'll admit it...when I'm in a hurry, I may use a brushless cream. And while the quality of the shave is only slightly different, the enjoyment of the shaving experience is lacking.

That said, the best use I've found for them has been either as a preshave to soften my beard or used underneath a traditional shaving soap or cream. Used a little under some shaving soap and a GEM razor this morning, and nearly 12 hours later, I'm still smooth as silk.

All the best,
Jack

"All you need is love, love...love is all you need."
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Post by notthesharpest »

GQGuy wrote:Again, taking preference factors as to what feels the best, whether or not you take the time or not out of the equation what would most people say would truly give you the closest shave, and is best for your skin?
0. It depends to some extent on what kind of razor you use.

1. The right amount of protection from the blade - not too much (like Edge sensitive gel from five years ago, which created a thick buffer zone that basically didn't allow the blade through at all), and not too little (like bath soap, which works sort of OK but can lead to more nicks).

2. The right level of slipperiness vs. drag on the blade. I think a tiny bit of drag might actually be an advantage sometimes.

Plus: Accomplishing all of the above with a product that you find pleasing to use and that does not irritate you.

Believe me, if there was one product that satisfied all of the above for everyone, we'd all be using it. :lol:
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Post by GQGuy »

I hear ya. Per one of your points, what if you used something like a mach 3?
Leisureguy

Post by Leisureguy »

Here's a thought on why all of these new companies are springing up bringing to market all the new brushless products:

The shaves guys are getting with the multiblade cartridges are highly unsatisfactory.

Because shavers are dissatisfied, marketers know that they will be willing to try new products in an attempt to get better shaves (not realizing that the problem is the multiblade cartridge itself). Modern shavers generally don't have a shaving brush, so the new products are brushless. (No marketer wants to put an obstacle in the way of someone buying the product, and having to have a brush would be a big obstacle.)

This is also, I think, behind all the "healing" aftershave balms you see on the shelves: guys are getting bad shaves, their skin feels awful, so they are buying new shaving preparations (creams, gels, aftershaves, balms, healers, etc.), but still keep using the razor that's at the root of the problem.

Or so I think.
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Post by notthesharpest »

GQGuy wrote:I hear ya. Per one of your points, what if you used something like a mach 3?
You've come to the point where you have to buy and try. You know everything I do. :D
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prism
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Post by prism »

GQguy asks an interesting question "What would most people say would truly give you the closest shave, and is best for your skin?" Most people HERE on SMF, or most people OUT THERE? Most guys "out there" do not know what a proper shave feels like. How could they? Raised on carts and canned goo, they really don't know any better. I think Michael (Leisureguy) hit it dead-on; guys are not satisfied with the shave that they are getting from mult-blade carts and are searching for alternative creams, oils, balms, when the problem is the cartridge itself. I have used a TracII, Atra, Sensor and MachIII, and my shave with brush and cream/soap was much closer than with canned foam. The shave I get from using a straight razor or a DE is superior to anything I could get from a cart. Again, I say, go with the brush and cream and/or soap. Your face WILL thank you! Vic
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paperpundit
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Post by paperpundit »

Michael, once again, sir, you nailed it...

Not only are men suffering from effective marketing, telling them that its great to drag 16 blades across your face, but they also have no idea there are other choices out there. My boss is a great example...he hates his morning shave, does a lousy job at it, and often comes in with big nicks and cuts...He often switches from product to product and often complains about the price. Mind you, he thinks that shaving with a brush and a DE is nuts...

But I'd like to add that the art of shaving, once passed down from father to son, is lost. Many of us learned to shave only after being handed a can of foamy and a disposable blade. It was only recently, when my father was remarking on my GEM razor, that he told me about how my grandfather used to shave. And there were lots of helpful hints...

That being said, I'll stick to a glycerin based soap and brush, lathering on my face for a couple of minutes. Seems to do the trick every time...but to each his own.

All the best
Jack

"All you need is love, love...love is all you need."
GQGuy
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Post by GQGuy »

I am truly impressed. You guys are great...no hassles...just great answers and good conversation.

Michael, you did pose an interesting point...though I am starting to think that even if I were to use a mach 3 that a good cream and brush are still my best options. Sure to each his own...but I want to do what will at least help me get the closest shave, and is best for my skin.

Like I said earlier. There is so much marketing stuff out there...and schools of thought. I've read and heard from places like GL who say it ain't necessary... to have a thick lather...that it's not necessary. We'll that might be true to some degree for the common guy who is using a can of Gillette, but I would still think that something like Art of Shaving, Trumpers, Taylors, or T&H would probably allow for a better job...at least by a little bit.

Thanks again guys...you rock. That's why I came to you...so that I could get real answers from real people who have tried multiple products.
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Post by notthesharpest »

GQGuy wrote:Like I said earlier. There is so much marketing stuff out there...and schools of thought. I've read and heard from places like GL who say it ain't necessary... to have a thick lather...that it's not necessary.
It is certainly not necessary to have thick lather. You can shave with just oil, or even just water, as lubrication. Whether it's better or worse, that's up to the individual.
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Post by Tye »

I use a brushless semi-often and my shaves are great. I used a Erasmic shave stick brushless the other day and got TOO close. I'll not do that again.

~Tye
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GQGuy
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Post by GQGuy »

Tye, just out of curiosity, since you do use a brushless often, do you notice much of a difference?

Here's another question for you guys...since I just got done using a lathering cream this evening. One thing I sometimes notice that I am trying to figure out and would love to get your guys opinion on. I often notice that when I use some shaving creams with a brush, for example this evening I tried using T&H ultimate comfort, and noticed that I had a little more burn.

To be honest, I am not sure if this is razor burn or something in some of the creams themselves? In any case, my face is almost on fire when I apply anytime of aftershave...I do tone beforehand...and use a preshave oil prior to applying cream....

The strange thing is that I do not experience this with any of the brushless products I have tried. Any chance there is something in some of the traditional creams that could be causing this difference. It's really weird, because my skin feels soft after using the cream...but sometimes leaves my skin on fire and somewhat blotchy for about an hour. As I said, this never happens at all when I use products like Sharps, Jack Black, etc. I am using a mach 3...yes I know...and will eventually switch...but any thoughts on this? Could it be that creams have more acidity in them...thus causing a reaction on my skin? Thoughts??
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Post by notthesharpest »

Have you tried with no toner? (or using it afterwards?)

Not defending any product - lately I just seem to consider it my mission to talk guys out of using stuff that doesn't help them anyway. :D
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Post by GollyMrScience »

Your brush itself may be irritating the skin. On the second or third lather up as your skin gets more sensitive from the previous shaving pass things like prickly brushes or sensitivity to a shaving product can be more noticeable. Certainly be aware that for many people new to this what they think is razor burn is actually chemical burn or reaction to the products they are using. Case in point -you have just scraped several layers of skin off in a fairly aggressive exfoliating process. Then take a handful of alcohol (or alcohol based aftershave) and splash it on. BURN oh my gosh does it burn - razor burn - no - alcohol burn yes!!!
For many guys switching over ANYTHING they do that can get them closer to the traditional approach can make a big difference.
Even using canned goo you can see an improvement by using multiple passes and lathering before each pass. Many cartridge guys slap on a layer of goo and shave until the whiskers are gone or the bleeding starts and never think of re-lathering their face.
Switch to a nice shave cream or soap and enjoyment goes up. Add a good brush and up again. Each step along the way makes the shave better.
The whole idea is to make shaving enjoyable and whatever you do to make that happen is fine by us. If you end up using a cartridge razor and canned goo and you are happy nobody, (well hardly anybody) would put you down for it. We might laugh at you behind your back but NEVER to your face. Thats the kind of nice guys we are.
-Tom-

What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!!

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