Back to the Drawing Board

shavedyankee · Post by **shavedyankee** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:00 pm

I have been DE shaving for several months now and I am getting terribly frustrated. I have no idea what I am doing wrong, so I have decided to go back to the drawing board.

My current set up is Nancy Boy Shaving Cream (signature scent), a badger brush from AOS, and a Gillette superspeed loaded with Israeli blades. It seems I cannot get away from irritation and burn!

My regular shaving routine consists of 3 passes (WTG, XTG, ATG). I always shave after a hot shower. I try take a break on Saturday and Sunday to let me face heal some because by Friday it definitely needs it. The first shave on Monday is always excellent. I am able to get a nice smooth, irritation free shave. I love it! From that point on it is all down hill. I have tried several different things.

First, I thought that maybe my lather wasn't up to par. So, I know make sure I spend a lot of time getting a nice thick lather. I make sure that I cannot see any hint of skin through the later before I touch blade to face. I have tried rinsing with warm water in between re-lathering. Still no good.

Second, I thought that my angle was off. I am at a point where I don't know what to do about this problem. If I adjust my angle I am barely cutting any hair. I moved to an Injector which lessened the irritation, but I still get some even with the Injector. The Injector is loaded with Schick blades. I feel that my pressure is ok when I shave. I try to be as light as possible.

Third, I realize that an ATG pass may not be an option for me. So, I modified my passes to be 1 WTG and 2 XTG. I go XTG right to left on one pass and left to right on the 2nd XTG pass. I can usually get a pretty decent shave this way. It is smooth enough and requires a little touching up, but overall it can help eliminate the ATG pass. It doesn't get me as smooth as an ATG pass, but I am really just trying to get a decent, irritation free shave at this point.

I am not really sure what else I should try. I change my blades often, usually every other shave (except for the Injector which I seem to be able to get about 4-5 shaves out of). I have started shaving at night, hoping that I can just spend more time on the shave. It doesn't seem to help.

I have decided to go back to the drawing board. I am going to start doing 2 WTG passes and leaving it at that, but I HATE this way of shaving. I like to be smooth and it literally drives me crazy to feel stubble all day. However, I want my face to heal up. After a week of shaving this way, I will add a pass. I will probably try an XTG pass and see how that works, as I always have problems with ATG (although the Injector seems to help with an ATG pass). I will also probably keep shaving at night with a touch-up pass in the morning, so that I can take my time. I plan on going as slooow as possible. Probably doing about one inch swipes with blade rinses in between.

I am really looking for some advice. I would love to just shave with a DE, but I may end up sticking with an Injector if it helps.

Some more info: I use either AOS or Nancy Boy after-shave balm. The irritation is mostly on my bottom neck and cheeks.

---and yes, I am whining a little bit!

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:49 pm

Chris, Okay, this is a tough one, without being able to actually see you shave. Stick with the Injector for awhile, and if you don't already, see if you can't find some of the old US made Schick blades ( check eBay, and beg and whine in the Sales/Trades forum if necessary ). They do make a difference. Also stick with the two WTG passes for awhile, and just work on your technique. Believe me, it is entirely possible to get quite a close shave this way....I did it for years. Make sure to effectively stretch your skin and take strokes that are no longer then one inch. And watch the pressure; with the skin stretched, very little is necessary. With the Injector, blade angle is not an issue, so it almost has to be the pressure factor. Either that, or you are mistaking a skin reaction to the cream for razor burn....which is possible, but I doubt it, as the problem is only on certain predictable areas of your face. BTW, what vintage is the razor that you're using? Best of luck, and let us know how it's coming along.
Regards,
Gordon

puffmtd · Post by **puffmtd** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:08 am

Hi Chris, +1 on everything Gordon said and I'll add this:
I haven't been at this very long so I'm just as new as you are but one thing I have noticed is everytime I shave with a Gillette I get horrible razor burn. I tried no pressure, more pressure, different angles...just about everything. I've got a red tip, blue tip and a couple of techs and everyone of them do it to me. I went back to the Merkur razors I started with and have had no problems at all with burn unless I do something dumb to cause it. I'm not telling you to go out and buy another razor just to see it it works but relating my experience. I hope you figure out what's causing it.

tone · Post by **tone** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:47 am

what blades are you using? The best balance of shave and zero irritation I have found so far are crystals.

Also, and I know it's hard to come to terms with but it has to be your frequency of shaving. I was in the same situation as you but you just need to work at it, it will not happen overnight.

Personally I'm not going to comment on your technique, if you say it is fine then I believe you. However, there is no harm in also working on it a bit more.

You say you get a nice shave on mondays after a long break but also want a really close shave every day. Well unfortunately at this stage it doesn't seem like you can have both, but don't worry you will one day but just not now.

Irritation by it's very nature is obviously irritated skin. Leaving it alone will get rid of it, and shaving over it will make it more irritated. I had this problem where I wanted to shave but it just made it worse so I had to shave less frequently and only when there was no irritation. Gradually however I was able to build it up and now after maybe only 2 months I am on daily shaves will no irritation for the first time ever.

You simply have to give your face a rest when it needs one, and also have a little more patience and I'm sure you will be fine.

Thanks

Tone

fish · Post by **fish** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 am

Some folks in here will suggest shaving with a DE every single day.

I am one of those individuals who did not follow that advice.

I alternate between my MACH 3 and the DE.

I strongly suggest alternating because to learn the DE requires a disciplined skill.

tone · Post by **tone** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:36 am

fish wrote:I strongly suggest alternating because to learn the DE requires a disciplined skill.

Which is exactly why some, myself included would use it every day to gain the discipline and skill to use it.

jww · Post by **jww** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:19 am

Chris - another thing you can try is shaving every day-and-a-half or every-other-day. I used this method myself when learning the DE ropes, and found that it worked well.

Also - against all our advice to not change anything up, might I suggest a Gillette Tech? It's the most gentle of all DE razors, imo. They are relatively inexpensive, and readily available on eBay or the Selling Forum.

Thalay Sagar · Post by **Thalay Sagar** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:28 am

Hi Chris,

Heed Gordon's advice. It sounds to me like you may applying a little too much pressure as everything else your doing sounds good. In the mean time, I agree with Wendell regarding getting a Tech. A very nice, solid, mild-mannered razor. There are a bunch on eBay cheap right now. Some Superspeeds have a bit of bite to them or have acquired character over the years from use and abuse.

ScottS · Post by **ScottS** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:37 am

I think 3 passes is probably too much for right now. Start with one or two, work on your shave until its comfortable, then move up if you see fit.

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:49 am

Have you watched Mantic's videos? (You can find links to them on this board.) They might provide some context and/or clues to what's going on.

GollyMrScience · Post by **GollyMrScience** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:55 am

Hmmmmmm......
I wonder if this is a case if skin thinning or cumulative irritation.
I get similar results if I use a feather blade in a superspeed. First shave on good face excellent but as the days progress the feather and superspeed combo start to irritate the heck out of me.
If your technique is good then I would try a differennt razor. As mentioned the Tech is a good one to try. I am a Gillette adjustable fan and do not suffer from the irritation buildup with them in combo with a feather. Of the Gillette Adjustables my favorite least aggressive (for me) is the long black handled Super Adjustable. All this is really just an excuse to buy and try more razors. And then some more blades to try in those razors and maybe a new cream or two. So it begins.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:46 pm

Tom, Well, I've rarely heard of skin thining occuring other than with Feather blades. But unless our man is using the old US made Schick injector blades, he may be experiancing a little 'roughness'. The current Injector blades are not as good, and that, coupled with too much pressure, could result in the kind of problem that he's describing. I wonder if he should back off and try the Bic for Sensitive Skin disposibles for a little while?
Regards,
Gordon

shavedyankee · Post by **shavedyankee** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:18 am

Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

Just an update. I have been using the Injector loaded with Schick blades. I have not changed any of the other products I use. I currently am still using 3 passes. 1 WTG and 2XTG going in alternating directions. I am finding this to give me a nice shave with little to no irritation so far. I only use an ATG pass under my chin and along my jawline, just in the rough patches. I make sure to shave in 1 inch strips and to NOT go over any skin that isn't lathered. I am going to continue experimenting with this and see how it goes. I will update again.

A few things in other posts here that I wanted to comment on:
My first razor was a Merkur HD. It started out ok, but then I started getting burn. I switched to the Gillette SS (49) and it made a difference. The last time I used the HD I butchered my face. Again, it could be sloppy technique and I plan on practicing.

I have several razors and would give a Tech a try, but I really don't want to buy a new razor unless I have to...so last resort kind of thing.

I use Israeli blades in my DE. I found them very similar to the Rite Aid brand (simple generic america personnas I guess) that seemed to do a nice job. Aren't these also called Crystals?

RJ · Post by RJ » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:37 pm

Read the post on the fidelity experiment if you haven't yet. I would think that learning your razor and improving your technique would be better than trying another one with different blades and more and more variations. To me, knowing what part of your face you can shave ATG v. XTG or WTG is as important a part of techniqe as anything else. I simply can not shave certain parts of my neck ATG without some irritation.

Is the irritation all over, or just in certain places? How tight are you gripping the razor? I didn't realize it for a while, but a tight grip on my razor led me to more pressure than I thought. When I loosened my grip a bit, things improved.

Also, sometimes when I over think my shave, it sucks. When I just shave, I get much better results.

shavedyankee · Post by **shavedyankee** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:29 am

I hold the razor by the tip of the handle with 2-3 fingers. I really have been trying to watch my pressure. I think one of my problems was that I was shaving too quickly, doing large swipes with the razor. I am sure I was screwing up my angle or something.
I think you are right about knowing your face and what it can and cannot handle. I cannot handle ATG passes on most of my face. Anything more than a very light touch up of rough areas leads to cuts and irritation.

I shaved again with the Injector using the passes as stated in my last post. No irritation, very comfortable shave. So far, so good...and GOD does it feel nice!

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:29 pm

Chris, I don't shave against the growth pattern except on the neck where the swirling growths make some against shaving inevitable. Cuts and irritation are often due to haste so slowing down may be the answer.

ScottS · Post by **ScottS** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:25 am

Squire wrote:Chris, I don't shave against the growth pattern except on the neck where the swirling growths make some against shaving inevitable.

Great lesson for newbies.

shavedyankee · Post by **shavedyankee** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:11 pm

Getting great shaves with the Injector. I haven't had any burn since my original post. Slowing down and watching my technique really helped. I have even been able to successfully attempt ATG passes. I think it is best if I use ATG passes sparingly, though. So, thinking it is time to start alternating with a DE....

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:59 pm

shavedyankee wrote:Getting great shaves with the Injector. I haven't had any burn since my original post. Slowing down and watching my technique really helped. I have even been able to successfully attempt ATG passes. I think it is best if I use ATG passes sparingly, though. So, thinking it is time to start alternating with a DE....

Using a different razor every day is VERY difficult and there's no good reason to do it. Pick what works and stick with it. If you want to alternate, switch every month, not every day.

For sure, now that you're getting some success with the Injector, use it till the end of July. Then you'll be able to decide what to do next.

There's a condition, don't know what to call it, that when a guy finally gets his first really good shave then he wants to switch equipment and start getting bad shaves again.

shavedyankee · Post by **shavedyankee** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:50 pm

I think they call it masochism, notthesharpest. lol

I am just dying to use my DE and the blades I bought. I have to agree, though. I won't switch up till the end of the month. I will have to go back to shaving at night, probably. I want to be able to concentrate on technique and not worry about time!