I'm going to start with Shave 2 since I have a thread for Shave 1.
Shave 2:
I decided to set aside a solid 45 minutes tonight to really prepare and concentrate. I took a hot shower, washed and exfoliated in the shower, let the water run on my face and neck for a solid minute before getting out.
Lather: Again, I had a problem with my lather. I tried to squeeze most of the water out of the brush this time (as last time it was too wet), but I had the same result: A very thin lather. I made it a little "thicker" by squeezing from the base and using what rose to the top. Still, it was a little too thin. What could I be doing wrong?
Once I was all lathered up, I started with the shave. I went down one side of my face, and it looked good. Then I got to my neck...the razor got caught, and there was cut one.
How the heck do you guys stretch your face out when there is lather all over it? I'm trying, but I just can't. My neck is shaped too weird to completely striaghten it out.
Once I got my 2nd cut, I decided I was going to do my cheeks and chin in its entirety, which I did, and it went fairly well.
My neck took me three lathers to do one full pass. It probably took me 30 minutes to do my neck...and it looks bad. Not as bad as last time, but bad. I'm afraid the only reason it looks better this time is because I used a different blade (as opposed to the merkur blade that came with my progress).
I know it's my only shave, but I'm frustrated. There were the reasons I began wetshaving:
1) No matter what I did with my other razors, the majority of the time I got razor bumps
2) I could never smoothly shave my upper lip...and had to use an electric razor for that...and the straight razor for everything else
3) I wanted a BB smooth shave everytime
4) I wanted to even out my shave
As of now, I've added cuts to my razor bumps. I have NOT tried shaving my upper lip yet (and I'm scared to) because I can't master my neck.
The only good part of shave #2 is that it's better than shave #1. However, I think a lot of that has to do with the razor to be honest.
Any tips/advice for shave #3? I think I'm going to need to give my face 3-4 days of rest...as last time I gave it 5.
Shaving Log: Expert/Veteran Advice Appreciated
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bernards66
- Duke of Silvertip!
- Posts: 27393
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:02 pm
Sigh....this sort of thing has always been very difficult via the written word alone. If I could watch you shave I'd probably be able to spot the major problems in a minute or two.
The lather: shake the brush out well ( I just wet mine under running water, I don't soak ), and try more cream next time. BTW, I strongly urge you to cut out that exfoliation business in the shower...that is NOT helping the cause.
The neck issue: your blade angle to the skin is almost certainly off, and you may be applying too much pressure as well. Hold the razor down near the end of the handle, and make sure the handle is closer to parallel to the floor, not perpendicular to it. You stretch the skin by using areas that are not covered with lather. For the neck, tilt your chin toward the ceiling, and stretch by pulling the dry skin immediately below the neck.
Hey, at least shave #2 WAS better than shave #1. Learning proper technique is 3/4 of the battle, and that takes time.
Regards,
Gordon
The lather: shake the brush out well ( I just wet mine under running water, I don't soak ), and try more cream next time. BTW, I strongly urge you to cut out that exfoliation business in the shower...that is NOT helping the cause.
The neck issue: your blade angle to the skin is almost certainly off, and you may be applying too much pressure as well. Hold the razor down near the end of the handle, and make sure the handle is closer to parallel to the floor, not perpendicular to it. You stretch the skin by using areas that are not covered with lather. For the neck, tilt your chin toward the ceiling, and stretch by pulling the dry skin immediately below the neck.
Hey, at least shave #2 WAS better than shave #1. Learning proper technique is 3/4 of the battle, and that takes time.
Regards,
Gordon
Last edited by bernards66 on Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UsherLincoln
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:25 pm
- Location: Nebraska
+1. I know this isn't the first time it's been said, but we repeat it for good reason: pressure, pressure, pressure. Let the razor do the work.bernards66 wrote: The neck issue: your blade angle to the skin is almost certainly off, and you may be applying too much pressure as well.
Don't shave to eliminate the beard - shave to reduce it. Take your time (which you seem to be managing well) and do multiple passes with little pressure and you should be able to prevent those cuts.
Getting to a BBS shave is a process and it starts with reduced pressure.
-Lincoln
"Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee..."
"Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee..."
gordons advice is right on
i suggest you practice making lather each time you shave but until you get the lather correct maybe you should have a tube of brushless soap
to use until you get the lather making process down
i think you get the no pressure thing but it sounds to me at your are applying pressure
dont over stretch the skin many times just raising your head or hold air in your cheek is enough
this de shaving is time tested in other words in time its becomes easier
try not to make it happen just let it
good luck to you
marc
i suggest you practice making lather each time you shave but until you get the lather correct maybe you should have a tube of brushless soap
to use until you get the lather making process down
i think you get the no pressure thing but it sounds to me at your are applying pressure
dont over stretch the skin many times just raising your head or hold air in your cheek is enough
this de shaving is time tested in other words in time its becomes easier
try not to make it happen just let it
good luck to you
marc
If I may ask, how did the razor get caught on your neck? Did it hit a dry spot? Fold over some loose skin? From my (limited) experience, with a good lubricating lather and light pressure, you'd have to really work at it to get the razor to "catch," with any blade angle.
Unless your razor is a little different than the few I've tried (40s SS, 50s SS, merkur HD). I'm not familiar with adjustable razors yet. Is it possible he has the razor set too aggressively?
Perhaps your thin lather is the cause of some of these problems (just not lubricating properly) ?
Unless your razor is a little different than the few I've tried (40s SS, 50s SS, merkur HD). I'm not familiar with adjustable razors yet. Is it possible he has the razor set too aggressively?
Perhaps your thin lather is the cause of some of these problems (just not lubricating properly) ?
When I use my brushes, I get them soaked, shake them 6 times or so and them work on my lather be it a soap or cream. I agree with Master Gordon, try more cream and concentrate on getting that built up. One thing I used to do when I began my wetshaving adventure would be to just practice my lathering. I'd go and whip up a soap or cream lather a few times and in only a little while my lather technique was pretty well down pat. Devin would give me a few odd looks when I was in the bathroom at 6PM working on lathering. She just didn't understand how important this is.
-Tye
-Tye
Contributing Member to the Cause
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mantic
- Wielder of the Zorrick
- Posts: 2390
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:47 pm
- Location: Somewhere Between Snook and North Zulch, TX
Maybe I can help out a little here too.
Gordon has given you good advice: no exfoliation, shake out a little more water and/or use a little more cream, bring your skin taught without over-stretching.
Here are three videos about creating lather that might help.
The Progress is a great razor but it does have its quirks. Under no circumstances should you twist the adjustment knob more than 1/2 turn (that's about a "3" on my Progress, though your marking might be different: they're not uniform). The Progress also "bows" the blade more dramatically than other razors so you're going to have to check your blade angle carefully. Here are a couple videos about adjustable videos (one specifically about the Progress).
Bear in mind that you're learning a new skill, like swimming, riding a bike, or dating. Getting the hang of it is going to take a little time, and there are going to be a few bumps along the way. Hang in there, it'll come.
--Mark
Gordon has given you good advice: no exfoliation, shake out a little more water and/or use a little more cream, bring your skin taught without over-stretching.
Here are three videos about creating lather that might help.
The Progress is a great razor but it does have its quirks. Under no circumstances should you twist the adjustment knob more than 1/2 turn (that's about a "3" on my Progress, though your marking might be different: they're not uniform). The Progress also "bows" the blade more dramatically than other razors so you're going to have to check your blade angle carefully. Here are a couple videos about adjustable videos (one specifically about the Progress).
Bear in mind that you're learning a new skill, like swimming, riding a bike, or dating. Getting the hang of it is going to take a little time, and there are going to be a few bumps along the way. Hang in there, it'll come.
--Mark
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GollyMrScience
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 pm
- Location: Alberta Canada
Excellent advice above. The skin stretching is an aquired skill as everybody's skin and shape is different but here is something to consider.
You don't have to treat the lather on your face as some sort of sacred field of solid soap. If you see that you cannot stretch a piece of skin because your best place to pull from has some soap on it you are free to give that area a little wipe with a cloth to get some bare skin to pull on.
This is all part of getting to know your face. After a couple of shaves you will develop a technique for lathering that will give you the best aproaches. Leaving certain areas available to pull on will become second nature.
On the blade angle I would comment that you might try a false stroke first.
Place the top of the razor against your lathered skin and take the stroke using the top cap. It will glide across your skin and not do a darn thing except smooth lather. Now take another stroke but tilt the razor slightly rolling the edge closer to your skin. It will either slide on smooth top cap or shave and that will be about your least aggressive angle. Using the false stroke approach will help train your system - better to go from least aggressive to higher than too high and try to correct after there is blood.
You don't have to treat the lather on your face as some sort of sacred field of solid soap. If you see that you cannot stretch a piece of skin because your best place to pull from has some soap on it you are free to give that area a little wipe with a cloth to get some bare skin to pull on.
This is all part of getting to know your face. After a couple of shaves you will develop a technique for lathering that will give you the best aproaches. Leaving certain areas available to pull on will become second nature.
On the blade angle I would comment that you might try a false stroke first.
Place the top of the razor against your lathered skin and take the stroke using the top cap. It will glide across your skin and not do a darn thing except smooth lather. Now take another stroke but tilt the razor slightly rolling the edge closer to your skin. It will either slide on smooth top cap or shave and that will be about your least aggressive angle. Using the false stroke approach will help train your system - better to go from least aggressive to higher than too high and try to correct after there is blood.
-Tom-
What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!!
Wet Shaving Missionary - "Have you been shaved?"
What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!!
Wet Shaving Missionary - "Have you been shaved?"
My biggest problem when I first began was the angle. it was waaaaaay to close to horizontal and I was getting nicks and some irritation. What I finally did was get a protractor and placed my razor at the 30 degree mark and that really seemed to have helped me. I know that this is probably taking things to the extreme, but whatever works, right?
-Tye
-Tye
Contributing Member to the Cause
If you're going to take it to that level, it's interesting to note that 30* blade angle is not necessarily 30* handle angle. http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24685. Scroll to post #12 for pics.Tye wrote:My biggest problem when I first began was the angle. it was waaaaaay to close to horizontal and I was getting nicks and some irritation. What I finally did was get a protractor and placed my razor at the 30 degree mark and that really seemed to have helped me. I know that this is probably taking things to the extreme, but whatever works, right?
-Tye
Shave #3 was much better...but I'm starting to doubt this whole wetshaving thing (for me), but I'll explain at the end.
I'm still not getting the lather I want. I watched the videos many times. I've added extra cream...and it's almost as if it was too hard this time. I mean it was soft...but compared to usually shaving cream, it was heavy. Obviously it's because I had more in the mug, but still.
My face was fine with the exception of one part.
My neck was better...but I still got about three cuts. It took me, with preparation, a total of 35 minutes...and that's for one pass.
I guess here's my problem...and why I'm contemplating quitting already, and PLEASE talk me out of it.
1) I just can't see, even when I'm advanced, this shave taking less than 30 minutes. Assuming I'll be doing 3 passes at that point, I can't see it.
2) Irritation: I'm still getting the same amount of irritation that I did with my Mach 3 it seems. That was the main reason I switched.
3) The quick shave: There's going to be times when I'm going to need a quick, 5 minute shave. When I wake up late from work...fall asleep early the night before, etc. What do you do for that? Do you keep an extra razor for those instances?
I hate to be negative...but this doesn't seem worth it. Yea, I've spent over $120 and would hate for it to go to waste...but this is way too frustrating for me.
I thought wetshaving was going to get rid of my irritation, give me a smoother shave, save me some money, and even out my beard. None of that seems like it's going to happen.
Help.
I'm still not getting the lather I want. I watched the videos many times. I've added extra cream...and it's almost as if it was too hard this time. I mean it was soft...but compared to usually shaving cream, it was heavy. Obviously it's because I had more in the mug, but still.
My face was fine with the exception of one part.
My neck was better...but I still got about three cuts. It took me, with preparation, a total of 35 minutes...and that's for one pass.
I guess here's my problem...and why I'm contemplating quitting already, and PLEASE talk me out of it.
1) I just can't see, even when I'm advanced, this shave taking less than 30 minutes. Assuming I'll be doing 3 passes at that point, I can't see it.
2) Irritation: I'm still getting the same amount of irritation that I did with my Mach 3 it seems. That was the main reason I switched.
3) The quick shave: There's going to be times when I'm going to need a quick, 5 minute shave. When I wake up late from work...fall asleep early the night before, etc. What do you do for that? Do you keep an extra razor for those instances?
I hate to be negative...but this doesn't seem worth it. Yea, I've spent over $120 and would hate for it to go to waste...but this is way too frustrating for me.
I thought wetshaving was going to get rid of my irritation, give me a smoother shave, save me some money, and even out my beard. None of that seems like it's going to happen.
Help.
It sounds when you added more cream you needed more water as well. When I first started it would take me 45 minutes. Now it takes me less than 15, but I only use two passes on most days. You don't have to use a DE. There are several guys on this forum that use Bic's, Sensor's, and Trac II's as well. A good lather made from a brush will improve your shave no matter what tool you use. Shaving with a DE is an acquired skill and takes some time to learn. Only you can decide if its worth it.
Clint
Clint
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desertbadger
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:42 pm
- Location: Southern CA desert
[quote="Egoolps"]Shave #3 was much better...
My face was fine with the exception of one part.....
My neck was better...
OK, I edited parts out, but I left in what you said in your own words. Remember, this is only your 3rd. shave! I'll bet the 3rd. time you ever rode a bicycle you were still kind of wobbly, but you rode it better than the first time you tried.
This takes some time to learn and everyone is going to be learning at a different rate. Don't give up! In your own words you ARE improving!
A five minute shave? Sure you can do it, once you get past the learning curve. It won't be your best shave, but you will be presentable.
Lathering? Try this; when you have time, get your gear together and practice. You might be wasting some creme/soap, but practice. After you think you have the right consistency, spread it on your wetted free hand. How does it look or feel? Make any corrections accordingly. This is actually very easy to do, but so difficult to try and explain in words without actually watching you do it.
Above all, don't give up! If you do, then you will probably be passing over some of the best shaves you will ever experience.
Best,
David
My face was fine with the exception of one part.....
My neck was better...
OK, I edited parts out, but I left in what you said in your own words. Remember, this is only your 3rd. shave! I'll bet the 3rd. time you ever rode a bicycle you were still kind of wobbly, but you rode it better than the first time you tried.
This takes some time to learn and everyone is going to be learning at a different rate. Don't give up! In your own words you ARE improving!
A five minute shave? Sure you can do it, once you get past the learning curve. It won't be your best shave, but you will be presentable.
Lathering? Try this; when you have time, get your gear together and practice. You might be wasting some creme/soap, but practice. After you think you have the right consistency, spread it on your wetted free hand. How does it look or feel? Make any corrections accordingly. This is actually very easy to do, but so difficult to try and explain in words without actually watching you do it.
Above all, don't give up! If you do, then you will probably be passing over some of the best shaves you will ever experience.
Best,
David
Regards,
David
David
When I make practice lather, which I do at least once every time I use a new soap, I use the following method.
Start with a soaked, squeezed out brush
Start with a heavy load of soap or good amount of cream
see what happens when work with the fairly dry brush
feel the lather between my fingers, paying attention to how slippery it feels
continue adding water a few drops at a time and working the lather
keep feeling the lather after every additions
As you do this you should feel the lather go from sticky to slick to light/wimpy. When I lather again, I try to get the water where it was at its slickest, which is a little different for every soap or cream.
I think you should go through this, as poor lather is clearly one of your problems. I'd guess angle and pressure are also issues, but without a good lather you won't have a great shave even if you get those right.
Start with a soaked, squeezed out brush
Start with a heavy load of soap or good amount of cream
see what happens when work with the fairly dry brush
feel the lather between my fingers, paying attention to how slippery it feels
continue adding water a few drops at a time and working the lather
keep feeling the lather after every additions
As you do this you should feel the lather go from sticky to slick to light/wimpy. When I lather again, I try to get the water where it was at its slickest, which is a little different for every soap or cream.
I think you should go through this, as poor lather is clearly one of your problems. I'd guess angle and pressure are also issues, but without a good lather you won't have a great shave even if you get those right.
84.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.
First off, try not to be discouraged. You hear everyone on this forum (and other forums) talking about how great shaving is and how great the DE is and how great the brush and lather and this that and the other thing is, and you expect too much when you get started. What you don't realize while reading how great it all is, is how much of a learning curve there is before you are getting great shaves and really enjoying it. But rest assured that everyone here has gone through what you are going through. Everyone had to go through the learning curve. You have to stick with it to eventually get it down and really enjoy it. But don't worry, it'll click soon enough, and you'll be hording razors, brushes, soaps, and creams like the rest of us 
Now...
If quick shaves are going to be a regular necessity you might just need to keep some cream around that you can lather without a brush. I haven't used these, but I think I've heard that kiss my face is a good one. And I believe you can get it locally at whole foods (or similar organic/natural oriented store).
Even now that I'm getting better at building lather, I just can't see myself wanting to rush the process for a 5 minute shave. The razor doesn't make much difference once you get your technique down, you can get a DFS with two pretty fast passes, but for me it's building a good lather that takes the time. I think I could nail down a decent 8 minute shave including building lather, but not 5
I'm definitely still a newbie, but I've been spending roughly 25 minutes on my shaves, down from about 40 minutes when I started. I take my time and do a good amount of touchup for a near BBS shave every day. I really enjoy my shave time too, and I've loosened my schedule up to account for it. The morning shave is now something that gets me out of bed because I'm so excited to whip up some delicious lather and get down to business.
I totally agree with the suggestions for practice lathering. At first, even though I was having trouble with lathering, I just didn't want to waste the product and stand there making lather for no reason. One night, though, I figured what the hell and decided I was going to waste some soap and mess around making lathers. Before I went to bed, I just took my time trying all different things. Taking it from obviously way too little water to obviously way too much water. Trying whipping just a little and trying to whip like a madman. I just experimented a bunch. I figured out a few things, and the next morning I whipped up the best lather I've ever had and every lather since has been outstanding. Something clicked for me while practicing. Maybe it will for you too?
As far as your nicks/irritation problems go, all I can say is to stick with it. Once you've got a good lubricating lather, if you are still having problems, it has to be a pressure/angle issue. Like everyone says, there is a learning curve, and once you get it down, you're good to go. For now, see what happens with an improved lather. And be sure to use very light pressure while trying to get the blade angle correct. I recently read a good analogy (I can't remember where) that said to pretend to be "wiping" the whiskers off of your face. I think this is a good analogy and provides a good visual to know how you should be shaving with the DE.
Now...
If quick shaves are going to be a regular necessity you might just need to keep some cream around that you can lather without a brush. I haven't used these, but I think I've heard that kiss my face is a good one. And I believe you can get it locally at whole foods (or similar organic/natural oriented store).
Even now that I'm getting better at building lather, I just can't see myself wanting to rush the process for a 5 minute shave. The razor doesn't make much difference once you get your technique down, you can get a DFS with two pretty fast passes, but for me it's building a good lather that takes the time. I think I could nail down a decent 8 minute shave including building lather, but not 5
I'm definitely still a newbie, but I've been spending roughly 25 minutes on my shaves, down from about 40 minutes when I started. I take my time and do a good amount of touchup for a near BBS shave every day. I really enjoy my shave time too, and I've loosened my schedule up to account for it. The morning shave is now something that gets me out of bed because I'm so excited to whip up some delicious lather and get down to business.I totally agree with the suggestions for practice lathering. At first, even though I was having trouble with lathering, I just didn't want to waste the product and stand there making lather for no reason. One night, though, I figured what the hell and decided I was going to waste some soap and mess around making lathers. Before I went to bed, I just took my time trying all different things. Taking it from obviously way too little water to obviously way too much water. Trying whipping just a little and trying to whip like a madman. I just experimented a bunch. I figured out a few things, and the next morning I whipped up the best lather I've ever had and every lather since has been outstanding. Something clicked for me while practicing. Maybe it will for you too?
As far as your nicks/irritation problems go, all I can say is to stick with it. Once you've got a good lubricating lather, if you are still having problems, it has to be a pressure/angle issue. Like everyone says, there is a learning curve, and once you get it down, you're good to go. For now, see what happens with an improved lather. And be sure to use very light pressure while trying to get the blade angle correct. I recently read a good analogy (I can't remember where) that said to pretend to be "wiping" the whiskers off of your face. I think this is a good analogy and provides a good visual to know how you should be shaving with the DE.
What soap/cream/brush are you using? (I looked at all your posts and couldn't tell) Perhaps the lather problem is related to one of these....Egoolps wrote: I'm still not getting the lather I want.
[snip]
1) I just can't see, even when I'm advanced, this shave taking less than 30 minutes. Assuming I'll be doing 3 passes at that point, I can't see it.
2) Irritation: I'm still getting the same amount of irritation that I did with my Mach 3 it seems. That was the main reason I switched.
3) The quick shave: There's going to be times when I'm going to need a quick, 5 minute shave. When I wake up late from work...fall asleep early the night before, etc. What do you do for that? Do you keep an extra razor for those instances?
Re your other points, I usually do 2 passes, including prep and lathering in 10-15 minutes after a shower (not counting time in the shower even though it is part of prep).
Without a shower, and needing a quick shave, just getting hot water out of the tap and getting it on my face for about a minute as prep, I can lather and do a serviceable whole-face single pass with touch-ups in about 7 minutes.
When I'm really late, or lazy, I stay scruffy. I can get away with it, since I write software, no one looks at me most of the day.
Definitely stop the exfoliation -- the razor will exfoliate for you.
I have to admit, I am having a hard time understanding a single neck-only pass in 30 minutes -- I'm usually done with my whole face in a single pass in under 2, and don't recall ever taking more than 7 when I was starting out; I also recall noticing that in 8-10 minutes, lather starts to change and degrade and not provide as high-quality of lubrication anymore. Are your cut mostly later in your shave? If you're really taking this long, and also seem to be having lather problems, I would suggest rinsing off your lather after 5 minutes and re-wetting your face with hot water and then lathering the remainder of your face needing a shave.
John
Newbie here as well. My first shave, my lather was too thin. I rushed the process, and I received a lousy shave for my efforts.
I use a soap instead of a cream. I purchased a hot pot for 5$ off of CraigsList. I put about a 1/2 tablespoon of boiling water (a spash really) on top of the soap cake, and close the containers lid while taking a shower.
I pour the water into my oversized Mortor bowl, then swirl the brush on the softened soap for a good 60 seconds. It makes a nice surface paste, then I swirl the brush in the bowl for another 60 seconds, and I have enough lather for 3 or 4 passes.
I have only done 3 WTG passes in one shave, however, and I cut back too two because I too suffer from razor bumps.
So I purchased this product 2 days ago:
http://www.sephora.com/browse/product.j ... inate=true
It seems to be doing the trick, but I can't give it the thumbs up just yet
I use a soap instead of a cream. I purchased a hot pot for 5$ off of CraigsList. I put about a 1/2 tablespoon of boiling water (a spash really) on top of the soap cake, and close the containers lid while taking a shower.
I pour the water into my oversized Mortor bowl, then swirl the brush on the softened soap for a good 60 seconds. It makes a nice surface paste, then I swirl the brush in the bowl for another 60 seconds, and I have enough lather for 3 or 4 passes.
I have only done 3 WTG passes in one shave, however, and I cut back too two because I too suffer from razor bumps.
So I purchased this product 2 days ago:
http://www.sephora.com/browse/product.j ... inate=true
It seems to be doing the trick, but I can't give it the thumbs up just yet