First Lather Fail

[cadfael_tex]

After having good look with DR Harris and Trumper creams (and even tabac stick) I tried Trumper Rose this morning. Though it did lather easier once I took the plastic off (d'oh) it still was a very thin and 'airy' lather. Tried adding more soap but didn't seem to help. What did I do wrong?

Used my Vie Long Toro Ganso and Dirty Bird scuttle as usual to make the lather.

[Leisureguy]

It sounds as though your previous efforts were with shaving creams and now you're using a tub of shaving soap.

Be sure to load the brush by wetting the brush, shaking it once, and then brushing the tips briskly over the surface of the soap for 20-30 seconds. You need a fair amount of soap on the brush.

Brush the soap over your wet beard, and perhaps add a driblet of water to the center of the brush, and continue to work the lather up on your beard.

This is for face-lathering, the method that I use.

[DesertRat]

YMMV, but I've found that the DB scuttle is a little too small for me to create the lather I want from creams. I actually use a larger bowl that I bought a Target.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much cream you are using but I found that, even when my lather starts out really airy after an almond size amount of cream, when I add more cream, I also add more water. Then I keep swirling my brush. Eventually the cream just explodes.

Try that and see if it works. Add cream and water as you are building your lather.

Oh, and try a bigger bowl.

[DesertRat]

Good point Michael.

I assumed he was using cream and not soap.

[notthesharpest]

Thin airy lather usually comes from either not having enough soap, or from not having enough everything.

Lather like that is hard to work with and hard to fix - if it happens, don't try to fix it, just rinse and start again.

[Blue As A Jewel]

As Michael has said, soaps are a bit different than creams - I soak my brush, and wet the top of my soap while I shower. I then remove it from my Dirty Bird Bill Bowl, let it drip and give 2-3 firm shakes. Empty the bowl and start swirling my brush slowly to load the brush - I take a little longer 30-45 sec. I then start to build lather in the bowl, again swirling slowly and throwing in the occasional pump - this should get you a thick sticky mixture - I add about 1/4 tsp of water (I'm guessing... I measure drips out of my tap!) and swirl some more, about 30 secs - I repeat more or less 2-3 more times, judging the look and feel of the lather. Works everytime.

The problem I find is that it's hard to correct a lather once you've started and you've got either too much water or not enough soap. Here, you load the soap adequatley and because you have a drier brush to start with, add a controlled amount of water...

[cadfael_tex]

defitely sounds like a loading issue. I swirl the brush around the cream containers 3 seconds. I bumped it up to probably about 6-8 seconds for the soap. I'll try again tomorrow with a 30 second load.

[Leisureguy]

FWIW, I had a heck of a time learning how to use shaving soap when I first resumed traditional shaving. Shaving cream was no problem, but I couldn't consistently get a good lather from soap. That is in part why I now recommend that a novice use a shave stick (as a shave stick) when first starting to use soap: it ensures that enough soap is brought to the beard.

What turned the corner for me was that I set the shaving creams aside and switched to nothing but soap. Very soon, I learned the knack: daily practice is all that it takes---that, along with judicious experimentation and paying attention to what happens.

[jww]

Soap is so inexpensive (relative to cream, that is) that I don't worry about over-loading my brush ever when using soaps. Notwithstanding, I would agree with Michael, that using a shave stick and lathering directly to the face is a good way to learn about creating lather with soap.

[DesertRat]

For soaps, this video helped me big time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIsj58fqVjY

[notthesharpest]

defitely sounds like a loading issue. I swirl the brush around the cream containers 3 seconds. I bumped it up to probably about 6-8 seconds for the soap. I'll try again tomorrow with a 30 second load.

That's overdoing it IMO. How about 10 or 15?

[L. Martino]

Hiya,

When using triple milled soaps, I load my brush for a good 20 seconds or so. For melt and pours it's about 15 seconds of swirling. The brush is a little wetter when using the harder soaps, since many hard soaps don't lather quite as easily as the others do.

It's much easier adding water to fix the lather ratio, rather than adding more soap in the middle of things. Error on the side of excess when loading soaps.

Martin

[brothers]

defitely sounds like a loading issue. I swirl the brush around the cream containers 3 seconds. I bumped it up to probably about 6-8 seconds for the soap. I'll try again tomorrow with a 30 second load.

That's overdoing it IMO. How about 10 or 15?

I had a learning to lather issue with Trumper's Rose soap, got quite discouraged early on, then watched a video, maybe the one highlighted above, but IMO, you should work the wet brush on the soap until you get the brush properly loaded no matter how many seconds have ticked away. I confess, watching the seconds ticking off the clock is the last thing I'd ever think about doing. I just keep looking at the brush as it works on the soap, and as the loose sudsy stuff starts to thicken up, that's when I stop loading and start lathering either on the face or in the bowl.

[cadfael_tex]

Tried it again this morning and had a much better go at it. Counted as I loaded and got to about 20-22 it was pretty well loaded. That said, I think I like the creams better - seem less messy and a little easier to me.

[Leisureguy]

Keep on with the soaps, though, and I predict that you'll in time prefer them to shaving creams. This, though, is based on my own experience, and I must acknowledge that YMMV.

[jww]

Keep on with the soaps, though, and I predict that you'll in time prefer them to shaving creams. This, though, is based on my own experience, and I must acknowledge that YMMV.

+1

When I stopped focusing on how long or how much I loaded up my brush with soaps before lathering, I finally got them to work fine for me (and that goes for MWF as much as any other soap, btw).

This devil-may-care attitude towards my soap lathering has resulted in my simply loading up the brush for however long I think I need to, and taking it straight to my face for lathering. I found that the less scientific and analytic I was about shaving, the easier it became.

Good luck moving forward.

[Blue As A Jewel]

Good to hear - and agree with others have said - don't give up on soaps! Once you get them, they'll improve your experience with creams as well...

[cadfael_tex]

Not giving up on them. Still have the Tabac shave stick that I really enjoyed. Just not going to rush out and get more soaps. I'll use what I have (including the trumpers soap) and go from there. I'm still trying to decided if I like rose scents - the Thayers I have in rose and this soap are neither my favority.

[Pilto4prophet]

It sounds as though your previous efforts were with shaving creams and now you're using a tub of shaving soap.

Be sure to load the brush by wetting the brush, shaking it once, and then brushing the tips briskly over the surface of the soap for 20-30 seconds. You need a fair amount of soap on the brush.

Brush the soap over your wet beard, and perhaps add a driblet of water to the center of the brush, and continue to work the lather up on your beard.

This is for face-lathering, the method that I use.

This is the same tip that got my soap lather down pat. 20-30 seconds is a real bit of time, count it out. I'm learning on Col. Conk with a tweezerman boar brush. I have to say I'll never go back to "modern" cartridge razors.
You'd laugh if you saw my lather bowl. It's like a soup, or cereal bowl with a handle ring, that my wife got as a gag because it has a holstein cow motif on it. Perfect size for shaving though, and it didn't cost me a dime. Only tricky thing is if ya get too enthusiastic with the brush, the lather likes to jump out at you. Hah..

[cadfael_tex]

Just an update. Pretty much good with using the soap but it seems messier to me than creams. I think this may be in large part due to loading it in the little wooden bowl it came in. End up with the 'slosh' of it all over the bowl, my hand, and whatever I'm holding it over (trying to learn this to be the sink).

But I'm not giving up. I've committed to using up all I have before ordering any more (soap, cream, blades). At this point I'll probably order 2 creams and a cake of Tabac when I re-order in a bit.