how do you measure shave quality?

[gil3591]

Gil, have you tried the "Shaving Made Easy" method? This is the 1904 manual published when we all used straight razors. (Yes, I was around then. I KNEW King Gillette. King Gillette was a friend of mine.)

The manual emphtically advises that lather be applied only to a dry face. Water, especially if hot, softens the whiskers, which then lie flat against the skin so that the blade glides over them. But a dry, lathered face causes them to stand up stiffly against the blade so that it efficiently cuts them. This method works better for me, not only under the chin but all across the bearded area.

i'll give it a try

[bernards66]

Porter, Then there is that 1941 US patented version ( working off a similiar notion it seems ) whereby the shaver wets his face with COLD water and uses cold lather but a warmed up blade. Same rationale given about how hot water makes the whiskers too soft and they lie down etc. Dunno...hot water's always worked better for me and that does still seem to be the majority approach, both amongst at home shavers and traditional barbers as well.
Regards,
Gordon

[95%]

Gordon, I'm sure you're right that the majority approach is to use hot water, and lots of it. And of course it works pretty well. It's how I shaved for most of my life. I've recently found, though, that those tough spots, like the stubble under the chin, can be more effectively shaved if I follow the cold water/dry lathered face method. I accept the rationale, i.e. that a stiff whisker yields more easily to the blade than a soft one. Most surprisingly, I experience no burn or any undesirable after-effect. I'm using a multiblade, however, so I can't be sure how a DE would fare. I hope Gil will let us know.

[gil3591]

porter, i'll try your method in a few minutes.
it's logical that a soft wet whisker will cut easier and also logical that the dry whisker will have more drag. i also think that hot water would swell the skin, which would lower the amount of exposed whisker to the blade. i also would assume that cold water would retract the skin and thereby expose more whisker. barbers use a hot steaming towel vs. a wet towel. so i don't think their goal is to water log the whisker but rather to soften it. a few contradictions here that i will test in a few minutes. i just showered so i will have a clean beard. once it's all dry i will use lather, only, without wetting the face. wish me luck

[JayTrek]

HA...you made me laugh.

For me, the trick to the touch up is slowing down the stroke and really concentrating on angle and feel when doing the touch up pass. Works wonders. You should literally hear the stubble hitting the blade.

i'll just chime in again and say that i have no idea, what so ever, on how to get bbs under the jaw with only three passes and/or a touch-up. i can dial the progress or especially the futur up high enough to do the job but "tingle" will not describe the sensation when i apply the aftershave. it's more like pouring listerine on an open heart wound regardless if there's blood or not. i've decided to accept the stubble rather than feel the effects of a shave for hours after the fact

[gil3591]

ok, so i tried the new tequnique. i used cold water to make the lather and applied it to a dry face. the result , imo, was no different but the comfort level with warm water and lather is much greater.

[95%]

Gil, sorry it didn't make a difference. Not to nag, but the Shaving Made Easy manual insists that the lather be rubbed vigorously into the beard with the fingers, then re-applied with the brush. The hypothesis is that the natural oils of the skin soften the hair, while the soap removes them and makes the hair stiffer. I actually believe that, because my beard feels rougher after I wash my face in the shower as the first step in my routine. The stiffened hairs stand up from the skin, ready to be neatly sliced by the razor blade. Sounds almost like a Gillette commercial, doesn't it? :)

[gil3591]

well, porter, now you tell me!

[Blue As A Jewel]

well, porter, now you tell me!

There's always tomorrow...

[gil3591]

ok, so,,,news flash! there may be something to this cold dry shave technique. even though i wasn't initially impressed with the results i was rather surprised this morning to find out i really got a 24-36hr. shave from this method. i shaved with the same stuff this morning but used the old system of hot water prep, warm lather with hot water rinses. the result was that i had stubble within 4 hrs. and need to shave again before going out for this evening.. for this evening i used the cold method with my mild ej de89L and can tell i got a really close bbs.

my shave world has gone topsy turvy over the last 5 weeks, what with a great omega boar that makes me question badgers and now this!

porter's tip may be something to consider. thanks for the tip

[giammi]

I'm using a multiblade, however, so I can't be sure how a DE would fare. I hope Gil will let us know.

I used it with different kind of DE's and got good shaves with it even with a 2 days beard. No problems at all.

Maybe it is just a assumption, since I switch between different DE's/straights often, but I had the feeling that the blade longevity might be shorter...strangely it seems to me more on the DE's than on straight razors.

[95%]

Good show, Gil. I'm not doctrinaire about this matter of dry, cold shaving, however. There obviously needs to be a certain amount of hydration, and an all-cold shave is too unpleasant to be worth the minor extra benefit. So I still make my lather with hot water, but I rinse my face with cold water, then dry it before applying the lather. So there's a kind of balance between wet and dry, and between hot and cold.

This is serious shavegeek territory, of course. But I do feel my shaves are improved now that I've abandoned the all-wet, all-hot methodology.

Giammi, I'm indebted to you for making this suggestion in another thread not long ago. I do find that my Fusion cartridge doesn't last quite as long now. That's logical: the blades are doing more work!

[gil3591]

i got a really close shave with the ej de89L tonight using this method. in fact i even got a weeper which is hard to get with this razor. tonight i didn't prep my face at all. just hit it with a room temperature lather with no pre-wetting of the beard. i figured the boar brush and the tobs soap would clean the whiskers. i followed with cold water rinses. it's getting in my head that the beauty of all this is the lack of heat.
i think that a better result will come tomorrow what i wet the beard with cool water rather than going dry. today was a little too extreme.

i think heat gives a comfortable shave while the cool version gives closeness. maybe soaking the razor in warm water will give more comfort.

you're correct porter, this is shave geekness and i'm loving it!

[gil3591]

well here's the principle that i believe is relevant to this technique.
i think the cold water constricts the skin and the pours. this makes the exposed whiskers longer than if they where surrounded by skin swollen from hot water.

i think a benefit from this is the reduction of weepers. think about it, we rinse with cold water after the shave to close the pours and seal the weepers. so if we use cold water as a prep we should reduce bleeding and weepers as compared with using hot water.

[tweedcab]

Same as the two Davids above. I still look reasonably well shaved the following morning, but am never totally BBS on the neck felt ATG. In order to get that I would have to accept some razor burn...which I am not willing to accept. As David said, "balance".

I'm with you on this one Gordon. I simply cannot obtain a BBS shave without more passes than would be comfortable. I shave for the visual lack of growth. My wife and kids have accepted that Daddy is going to have a little stubble if you rub up on my neck. This in no way inhibits the affection my girls give me when I pick them up and they put their faces on my shoulder. If it did, I would be faced with daily uncomfortable shaves

[bernards66]

tweed, Yeah, I can, and do, get BBS shaves on the cheeks but must be a wee bit less demanding regarding my neck as I think razor burn is a much less desireable option then being able to feel a slight hint of whisker ATG that nobody can visually perceive anyway.
Regards.
Gordon

[brothers]

I consider the tools I'm using, the # of shaves already on the blade that's doing the cutting, and how much time I took to get from start to finish. All of those factors go into how smooth is the final product. The only time I'm really hot is when I'm using a straight razor and after a couple of passes, I feel of the whiskers and it turns out nothing's getting cut. It rarely happens, but when it does, it's hilarious to think of how much time I spent honing before playing such a stupid joke on myself! It's a learning curve, and sometimes I think I forget at a faster rate than I learn.

There is a really positive downside to having a poor or non-existent shave. While interacting with others, they either don't notice, and certainly don't really care, to be totally honest about it.

And there's one female (SWMBO) who does count, and she is always telling me that she really finds it quite attractive when I'm unshaven. I consider all of the above a "WIN - WIN".