Help: Difference between 2 band and 3 band Badger brushes?

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dawgvet
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Help: Difference between 2 band and 3 band Badger brushes?

Post by dawgvet »

Pardon my ignorance brethren, but what is meant by the terms "2-band badger" and "3-band Badger" brushes? I understand these to be high grades of badger hair to use in finer brushes but how does one distinguish these levels and what, besides appearance, is the difference between the two?
Regards,
Jedidiah
brothers
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Post by brothers »

Jedidiah, thank you for asking this question. I've been too shy to ask it. I'm very interested in finding out what those terms mean, and what are the advantages of brushes with different numbers of bands. I have guessed silently that bands are colors, but now maybe we'll find out.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
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m3m0ryleak
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Post by m3m0ryleak »

Is it reference to where on the badger's body (neck, back, belly) the hair is "taken". ?
Tony

"They say that dreams are growing wild just this side of Burma Shave" - Tom Waits
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Mitsimonsta
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Post by Mitsimonsta »

As I understand it, the 'bands' are simply the colors of the hair in the brush.

2-band: Cream colour with black in the middle

3-band: Cream colour, black in the middle, plus silver tips.

3-band also implies higher quality.
Joel

Currently DE86, NOS Bleue Extra, Muhle Pure Badger and TOBS Sandalwood.
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paddy
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Post by paddy »

yea, the bands refer to the colours.

2 band bristles are usually stiffer than 3 band in my experience, and don't bloom as much.

also some grades of 2 band are considered the equal of 3 band. i don't think that simply being 2 band denotes / implies lower quality.
Remember: this is all just wasted time and lives talking nonsense to strangers about pieces of metal, hair and chemical compounds.
bernards66
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Post by bernards66 »

Gary, Yes!...by George, I think you've got it! ( chuckle ). It's just a reference to the appearance of the bristle in the brush; light, dark, light or simply light crown and dark base. Long ago the highest, most expensive, type of badger bristle was called 'whitecap' or 'Highland White' ( because way back this type of premium bristle was sourced in the Scottish Highlands ). This is the type of bristle that was still being used by Plisson when Buzz acquired his famous monster brushes although, of course, it was not from Scotland by then. On these forums we used to struggle with the terminology of the various makers; Pure, Best, Super and so on, but it is in no way consistant from one maker to another, or even with the same maker over time. What constitutes genuine 'silver tip' was a hot topic of debate for several years. Increasingly we started moving to more visual and across the board descriptive terms. I started to use Plisson's simple, and very old school, classification of black badger, grey badger and white badger. The large majority of higher quality badger brushes are various grades of grey badger. These can vary considerably in the gauge of the bristle shaft, knot density, and in other ways, but they are all in the general catagory of 'grey badger' and they almost always show three distinct bands of coloration. Real 'white badger' bristle is in much shorter supply and the top grade of it doesn't seem to even be available at the moment. But just because it's much rarer, more expensive, and more visually striking doesn't necessarily mean that it's catagorically 'better'. That's an individual judgement call. Most of my favourite brushes that I've used personally have been high grades of grey badger.
Regards,
Gordon
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desertbadger
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Post by desertbadger »

Image

If it will help clarify the terminology, here's a picture of my Rooney Emillions. The one on the left is a three band super grade; light colored top, dark band in the middle, light colored bottom.
The brush on the right is the fan shaped two band in finest grade; light on top, dark on the bottom.

Regards,
David
Regards,
David
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Mitsimonsta
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Post by Mitsimonsta »

paddy wrote:also some grades of 2 band are considered the equal of 3 band. i don't think that simply being 2 band denotes / implies lower quality.
Absolutely agree. My point was that 3-band just implies that the brush is better, however it may or may not actually be the case, and that is before you apply YMMV.
Joel

Currently DE86, NOS Bleue Extra, Muhle Pure Badger and TOBS Sandalwood.
bernards66
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Post by bernards66 »

Joel, It's actually the reverse. 'Two band' bristles are generally considered to be 'superior' and almost invariably cost much more than any comparable sized three band brush. Compare the price of a Plisson #12 HMW with their #12 European grey ( a classic high end three banded grey badger brush ). The HMW is way more expensive. Ditto for the Rooney Finests as compared with their otherwise three banded offerings. Or those special order two band Simpsons that Phil has been offering as compared with the stock models. However, as I said above, just because two band 'whitecap' is the traditional top of the tree in shaving bristle doesn't mean that it will be everyone's favourite.
Regards,
Gordon
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Post by brothers »

Gordon, thanks. This is a big help to me, at least. I've been seeing a lot of posts that seemed to be holding the 2 band brushes out as the more choice brushes.

I am understanding that the term "2 band" identifies those brushes that are going to perform better than hair with 3 bands of coloration. Or is it simply due to the rarity of the hair due to the difference in cost and color? Is the price diffrence based on performance vs. the pattern of the coloration?

I apologize if someone has listed the specific performance characteristics that the user of a 2 band will recognize as being present in his brush, and lacking in a brush that uses hair with 3 bands of color. Would it be possible to list those characteristics? Is the coloration different because the hair comes from a different part of the badger.

I hope I don't seem too thick-headed. Am I on the right track here?
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
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paddy
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Post by paddy »

i think it's the relative rarity and perhaps the asthetic also that makes the 2 band that bit more expensive.

i don't think one can definitively state that 2 band is better than 3 band as different folks prefer different characteristics. personally i prefer 3 band super over 2 band.

as stated, i have found that 2 band bristles are stiffer than 3 band. in really densely packed brushes with fairly short loft such as a simpson chubby, 2 band makes for too stiff an all round brush for my taste. also brushes made of 2 band don't seem to bloom as much as their equivalent 3 band.
Remember: this is all just wasted time and lives talking nonsense to strangers about pieces of metal, hair and chemical compounds.
bernards66
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Post by bernards66 »

Gary, As Paddy said, it is really all three. Real whitecap bristle ( pure white, or very near, tips and a second long band of glossy black going all the way to the handle.....even whitecap is ultimately three banded but the middle black band is so wide that the third lighter band is hidden by the the handle ) has always been in much shorter supply and is obviously more striking looking and these facts command a premium. Quite a few cognoscenti also think that it is more desireable performance-wise, but not everyone agrees on that. White badger is usually heavier gauge, that is, each bristle shaft is thicker. As Paddy said, this tends to led to a pretty firm brush especially if the loft is short and the pack is dense. The tips of whitecap are often nice and soft, but not, by any means, always. I've had a few that were quite 'prickly', especially when new. IMO, whitecap brushes are a luxury item and one is paying more for appearance and cache then for simple performance....and this is from someone who still has a couple of them and has had more in the past. And yes, whitecap comes from only a small area of the pelt and then only from animals of a certain age/size and in colder climates.
Regards,
Gordon
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