questions

brianh1978 · Post by **brianh1978** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:04 am

Hey all, need some help. I have a merkur classic hd and when I use it my face is red and shiny no matter what blade, angle etc i use. I also have a 48-50 superspeed and get a passable shave out of that. Is the hd that aggressive? Is there something slightly more aggressive than the ss. My gear is vulfix lav shaving cream, classic shaving lav and porasso white soaps, and a rooney snythetic brush, gilette 700 yello (but happens no matter what blade I use) and prep is the same every day. If I decide on a new razor any ideas. Open comb, closed, futur, progress or some older classic like fat boy or such?? Thanks for your input!

Brian

JohnP · Post by **JohnP** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:05 pm

I don't have a Merkur classic so I could be wrong, but if everything else is the same, your suspicions are probably correct.
My bet is the Merkur is a little thicker on top making for a more aggressive blade angle when you place the razor against the skin, especially compared to a super which is fairly forgiving.
If all razors shaved the same, we'd all have the same one...

When I use a DE, the razor that gives me the most comfortable (and close too) shaves is a slant. It actually surprised me because I was expecting something harsh and aggressive but instead the thing looks evil but shaves smooth and pain free.

I would recommend it (based only on your post) over the Futur (I've owned one and have a hunch it would be even worse than the Classic...) and quite a few others. It gives a very good shave yet doesn't require the harsh blade angle when you are using it.

Or....do like everyone else on these forums and acquire one or five of EVERYTHING and attribute it to some vague acquisition disorder or love of "variety".....not that I would know anything about that.

John P

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:48 pm

I see two general possibilities. Either or both may be wrong, but they're my opinions.

1. Maybe you don't like the Merkur style razors and should stick with the Superspeed.

2. Maybe your shave with the Superspeed isn't really passable either, because you're accidentally doing some simple thing wrong, and whatever the error is, it happens to be masked by the way the SS is built.

If #2 is the case, I would bet that your error is either too much pressure or too steep an angle between blade and skin, and I would make a side bet that if you spent a few minutes fixing up both of these things, your shave would suddenly improve with both your current razors and you would like them both.

My new hyper-over-simplified test: Look at your razor after a stroke, before rinsing it. There should be lather BOTH in front of AND BEHIND the blade. If there's a pile-up of lather in front of the blade and on the guard, but the razor head behind the edge of the blade is clean, then your angle and/or pressure is wrong.

If the Merkur Classic is too aggressive for you, then stay FAR away from the Futur and the Vision, they will hack you up in no time. The Progress, set to a low-ish number, can be a nice choice if you do want something a bit more aggressive but to not go overboard. It is (sort of, a bit) like a HD with an adjuster built in.

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:44 am

my thoughts are the same as notthesharpest he is sharper tha him name suggests haa

one needs to find the best angle with each razor they use.. and of course
how much pressure to use or not to use..

so you may find you like or dont like a heavy and aggressive razor,,but you can learn to get great shaves after you adjust yourself to the razor and find the shaving angle that is comfortabke and works best..

and each time you change blade brands, you may need to adjust for that too..

if you deside to go with a adjustable than you can dial down the razor and
slowly adjust it till you find the sweet spot that is pleasing to you

a futur dialed to setting one is real tame,, but the futur is very hefty and will feel awkward in your hand until you get to feel of the ultimate shaving
machine

so i hope that with some small adjustments on you part your shave experience will improve

marc

jbc · Post by **jbc** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:22 am

Since the blade makes little difference try different razors and see which works best for you. Please understand that a HD with a Persona is different then a super speed with a persona blade.

Another forum member once told me that he had a similar problem to you and what he did is he learned to use a straight razor. For some reason the straight razor was better becuase it allowed more control over the blade.

Myself I preferr straights becuase they are a traditional method of shaving that does not produce any garbage.

brianh1978 · Post by **brianh1978** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:19 pm

"My new hyper-over-simplified test: Look at your razor after a stroke, before rinsing it. There should be lather BOTH in front of AND BEHIND the blade. If there's a pile-up of lather in front of the blade and on the guard, but the razor head behind the edge of the blade is clean, then your angle and/or pressure is wrong"

so does that mean if the lather is just on one side the back of the razor only in this case, is too steep then?

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:08 pm

That "test" is too simplistic to give reliable results - it only works sometimes.
But the main point of it is that if there's no lather on the cap of the razor, only some on the safety bar, then your angle might be too steep.

Shaving works better when approached from the other direction: Start out with the top of the razor head in contact with your skin, and the blade missing everything completely; then tilt the razor ever so slightly until the blade just begins to work. That's the ultimate razor position. (Note that the above recommendation only really works when your razor is in motion, so you can hear and feel it when the blade just catches the hair.)

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 pm

What can I say? I've been DE shaving for decades and I just find the Merkur three and two piece razors to be too 'aggressive' for me to use comfortably. I'm a 'Gillette Guy' and perhaps you are too?
Regards,
Gordon

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:15 pm

brianh1978 wrote:so does that mean if the lather is just on one side the back of the razor only in this case, is too steep then?

If "back of the razor" means the flat plate under the blade, then yes that would mean your blade angle is much too steep. Shaving like this will cause red skin and a patchy, bad shave. If you have been doing this wrong all along, then when you get it right, you are in for a treat - your shave will be both closer and more comfortable.

When cutting down a tree, draw the saw sideways through the tree, not toward the ground. Sure, aiming at the ground might seem like it would leave a shorter stump, but it makes a terrible mess too.

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:05 am

brian one Merkur model works for me, the Futur, none of the others do.

gil3591 · Post by **gil3591** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:49 pm

there are only a couple of razors that have worked for me. i find gillettes to be either too mild and don't get the job done or they are harsh. even my slim adjustable leaves a ton of weepers in order to get the same closeness as a merkur. now the merkurs; hmmm. the same headed HD and 38c were very nice with the 38c edging out the HD for efficient shaving/ the futur was too harsh. my absolute favorite of any razor, period , is the progress. i now own a mergress xl and a "new version" regular progress. i love the adjustable abililty. you can adjust the razor to the type of blade you're using and you can dial it up as the blade your using ages. i have had 3 futurs, a 38c, a 39c, 2 hd"s 3 progress, 2 gillette slim adjustables. 3 superspeeds, a gillette tech, a schick injector, a 1912 gem, str8's, ej 89L, dr harris.
the progress is the winner and i am happy to use the mergress/progress razors as my sole tool. if you don't want an adjustable but want something a little milder than the HD i would suggest the ej 89L. truly a quality piece!

brianh1978 · Post by **brianh1978** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:35 pm

thanks for the replies, gonna give it another whirl , something else I had questions about is bbs would imply running with and against the grain and its smooth correct? The other is up close are you supposed to still see where you shaved like the hair on your face(or stubble). Im trying to get away from shaving against the grain but doing two passes I get smooth going down not upwards and some places look like they havent been shaved but yet smooth??

gil3591 · Post by **gil3591** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:52 pm

i can't get a close shave unless i go atg. period. i go against the grain during my shave and i do a touch -up atg to finish. under the chin is especially difficult for many. i've found that your creams and soaps apply cushion to your face that prevent a bbs. i will rinse after my shave and then do a careful atg under the chin without lather and rely on the lather residue for protection. this is where my adjustable razor comes into play. i will stretch the skin under my neck and apply pressure while i do a "slow" atg east to west pass. tallow based products leave an adequate amount of slick residue to do the atg pass after rinsing.

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:24 pm

brian I think bbs originated as a phrase used by guys who wanted to brag about how close they could shave. The first concern is a comfortable shave and the rest follows with practice which you get to do every day.

jss · Post by **jss** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:49 pm

Brian the answers are here..It takes a little persistence to implement them..Persevere its worth it....

Best regards,
Julian

JayTrek · Post by **JayTrek** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:56 am

Agree with the gentlemen above. If you are concerned the the HD might be too aggressive...You do NOT want to try a Futur.

I use a Futur almost exclusively and love how it shaves my face...but it is not for everyone.

Racso_MS · Post by **Racso_MS** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:32 pm

Did someone mention a M-E-R-K-U-R

One size does not fit all. Experimentation, a light easy touch and patience is necessary until you find the version you want. BUT, that can be said for any DE.

My signature block says it all:

notthesharpest · Post by **notthesharpest** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:05 am

brianh1978 wrote:thanks for the replies, gonna give it another whirl , something else I had questions about is bbs would imply running with and against the grain and its smooth correct? The other is up close are you supposed to still see where you shaved like the hair on your face(or stubble). Im trying to get away from shaving against the grain but doing two passes I get smooth going down not upwards and some places look like they havent been shaved but yet smooth??

If your skin and your hair are very different colours, or if your hairs are "heavy gauge", then they will probably always show even after the best shave.

My opinion: If your face is not comfortable afterwards, you need to change your shaving methods until it is. A proper one-pass shave that doesn't feel smooth, usually looks just as good as a closer shave.

changabang · Post by **changabang** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:50 am

Racso_MS wrote:Did someone mention a M-E-R-K-U-R

One size does not fit all. Experimentation, a light easy touch and patience is necessary until you find the version you want. BUT, that can be said for any DE.

My signature block says it all:

I'm sorry, Oscar, my friend, but the Merkur/EJ style heads with the ridges drive me NUTS, and I find that there's no use looking for a comfortable shave from them. Now those Merks with no ridges like the Futur may be more harsh, but I find them more comfortable. The Gillette Techs and iKon solid guards I find most comfortable of all. Of course it's not merely a question of hardware, but also of technique, as the veterans have attested to above. But the one thing that rules all is that everyone's mileage varies, and even though it can be expensive, one has to not be afraid to experiment.

Odio Barbillas · Post by **Odio Barbillas** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:43 am

There IS a possibility of sensitivity to ingredients in your creams, soaps, after-shaves, or even your brush when you first set out.

If you're sure your troubles are not a result of technique, it must be a question of something in your kit. I have more than one razor and by rotation I never have a problem from them. I did find that some soaps I used were more drying than others.

Process of elimination and good luck!