From DE to Straight

Marsom · Post by **Marsom** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:48 pm

I figured this would be a worthy post. Over the last two years, I've been using a Barely Chrome Chatsworth DE which has proven to be an excellent razor in every way. With a good blade, I get the best shaves using that tool.
When the Swedes went south, that was somewhat of a letdown, but then the Iridiums proved to be a really good blade, so I was pretty content using those. Feathers work well, but like many seem to find, I end up getting some discomfort after regular use. I still have about 80 Iridiums left, but haven't been using them as I've been trying to find a comparable replacement. I keep getting letdown. I can shave with most blades out there, but I don't find many of them comfortable and none I've tried seem to be as smooth and sharp as the Swedes and Iridiums. The Swedes were even better than the Iridiums, but they were close enough for them to both work well. I don't like spending much time fooling around with this stuff these days as my experimenting phase is pretty much over. I do still try out different creams or soaps on occasion, but I like my razor and blade and even brush to be a constant in the equation.

I figure that this blade situation could only become more difficult as time passes. It seems that years ago, good DE blades were something that were easily obtained because that's what was used by the masses. Later on, there were still some good ones, but in the recent years, for me and what I like, there are few choices left... unless there is something out there that I haven't tried. Chris Moss, was kind enough to send me a Thiers Issard (4/8 I believe) that is in excellent condition. I had always had some interest in picking up the straight, but the learning curve in getting first rate shaves and the honing kind of steered me away from it. I shaved a few times with this straight and got decent results as I have used a Feather straight in the past a bit. Still, it was much easier to just put it down and pick up my EJ DE and get a easy shave. However, I started to realize that if I could learn how to put a really sharp edge on a straight and learn to shave well with it, I wouldn't have to deal with DE blade scarcity which is becoming kind of a pain.

So, I made a decision to make a solid go at learning how to maintain an edge on this straight and will be buying a strop and stone and whatever else I need to use it optimally and see where I end up a month or so from now. If it works out, I'll buy myself a really nice 5/8 or something and that will be my razor. We'll see how it goes.

I do have a question, Chris sent this razor honed and stropped. I don't own a strop, so I used it for about two shaves without re-stropping. Does this present any problem such as needing to re-hone or do I just need to buy a strop and strop it for it to be ready for another shave?

Also, seeing that I like having the least amount of stuff around for the best results, what kind of strop do I need and what kind of honing stone would be best? And, is this all I will need to fully maintain the blade?

Best,
Marion

Marsom · Post by **Marsom** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 pm

This post possibly should have gone under the straight razor section, but it discusses DE and straights, so I wasn't sure.

Best,
Marion

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:40 pm

hi you gotta know that drmoss is the man and he has been thru just about ever stone and strop know to man..

so he would be the guy to talk too.. generally a straight needs stropping before each shave.. and generally straights need to be honed every two or three months..

another way out of honing is you can send the razor out to be honed,,
i think most charge $20.00 for the service..

others knowe more about this then i, but i think if you have a 4000/8000
combo stone that will be you main stones for honing.. after that i think
a 12,000 and then its ready for stroping..

like i say im not the expert on this subject,.

i hear you about getting de blades,,and not wanting to try so many brands and most are going to fail or not live up to your expectations

and its a shame that no one can suggest a blade and know it is going to make you happy

im lucky in a way that i am using the same brand blade since the 70's
and they are still being made to the same quality as back in the days

one idea i do have, it some razors shave well with just about any blade you use.. so its possible to have a razor and be able to use a good blade
and get fine results..even if its not the blade you would like to use

in fact today is a perfect example of this.. generally i change to a new blade weekly.. each monday to change my blade day

im out of my regular rotation this week...(long story) today i took out my trusty merkur futur and put a astra blade in it.. i never use astra's and i have tried them and not a top choice at all for me..

final result..i could tell it want my main brand.. but it worked fine and i get a nice smooth and close shave..

futurs just shave well with just about any blade

so you may love your razor of choice but maybe another razor that you could use many different brands of blades is another way to help your situation

good luck with your straight
marc

Pauldog · Post by **Pauldog** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:55 pm

I'm going to move this to the straight razor section, since you're asking for advice about using a straight razor.

loueedacat1 · Post by **loueedacat1** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:29 pm

if you've just used it twice you should just strop it. Stropping of course is a learned skilll so you may roll the edge doing it, but if you commit you'll get there. You should get a good strop and hone (coticule is versatile), otherwise you'll be learning with your hands tied behind your back.

But this is fun stuff so I hope it sticks for you.

matt321 · Post by **matt321** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:06 pm

Just strop it for now. Eventually you will need a hone. A Naniwa 10K or 12k Superstone would be a good touchup hone. Naniwa's are very popular with straight users.

There is a cult following for the Belgium Coticule hone with an entire forum dedicated to its use. The Coticule guys boast that this stone can be used as a bevel setter as well as a finisher. So you might choose that route instead of the Naniwa. Here is Martin at Rasurpur demonstrating a Coticule and then a Naniwa 10K.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xr3JJlQ ... rofilepage

I would recommend a hanging strop from SRD, probably an English Bridle Leather one. This is a first class strop and if you cut it you can just get a replacement leather piece. Some strops break-in slowly, but I think these bridle leather strops are good from the start.

Finally, consider a paddle strop for use with TI Pate Rasoir paste on one side and 0.5-micron ChromeOxide on the other. This will help you a lot while you wait for your skills on the stones to blossom. I have never managed an optimum edge off of a hone without following up with ChromeOxide. (My current method: http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45325 )

It will be hard to boot up shaving, stropping, and honing skills to workable levels quickly, but it can be done. I believe my own modest skills have gradually improved over my three years experience. Currently my latest greatest touchup hone is a Spyderco UF prepped with a few dots of 0.5-micron diamond spray, a touch of "liquid soft soap, and a tablespoon of water. (More on this method here: http://www.wetshavingworld.com/forums/s ... rhone-quot )

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:49 pm

Ah well, Marion...I hope it works out. I can't tell you much that you don't already know. Cutthroat razors are a whole trip and most of the gents who use them regularly are into it all. For someone who doesn't really want to futz with stuff it can be trying. As Chris M. has often pointed out, up until the advent of the safety razor most gents who were habitually really well shaved did not do it themselves...either their valet or a barber did. The majority just weren't that well shaven. Good razors were available in the 19th c. but it was just too much trouble, took too great a level of skill, etc. for most men to bother to get really good at it and to go through the whole drill every day. I've tried them twice and I couldn't get okay with the inevitable 'pulling and tugging' ( compared with a good DE and blade ), plus I wasn't really looking forward to the time learning, and the expense, of hones and the rest of it. I have no trouble understanding how some gents enjoy all that as a 'thing' but it really isn't/wasn't for me. In truth, I'm not that much of a true 'hobbyist' about all this. You might want to contact Dominic as he made the transition not that long ago and he doesn't use a whole lot of 'stuff'; a couple of razors, a strop or two, and only one hone I think.

As you know, I feel the same about the current DE blade situation and it is a royal PITA and a worry for the future. I don't know. I have several years worth of vintage blades still around and I plan to look for more. While it's an annoying hassle for me, it's less of a hassle than the whole straight razor route. But that's just me. I also have those Chinese made Schick injector blades to fall back on as they work adequately for me. Not marvelously, you understand, but good enough. This whole situation really is a shame. Good luck whichever way you decide to go.
Regards,
Gordon

Marsom · Post by **Marsom** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:01 am

Well, I really would prefer to find a good enough DE blade and just stick with what I'm doing. I really like my chatsworth. With the straight, I can get a decent shave considering I have little practice with them, but I find it really hard to switch hands and to shave the jawline and slightly under. I honestly don't really have that much a desire to spend much effort and energy learning how to hone, but I figure it's worth a shot. If I could learn how to use a straight as effectively as I can my DE, it's probably worth it as chasing down and hoarding DE blades just doesn't seem to interest me. We'll see. I could at least buy a strop and let someone else hone it for now until I really find out if it's for me. That's not all that much expense.

Marsom · Post by **Marsom** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:03 am

On the other hand, maybe I will grab a futur and see if some of the blades I've been using work better with it. But, I do have to admit that I like the traditional look and feel of the chatsworth.

Post by **drmoss_ca** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:46 am

You definitely need a strop before you go any further. If you strop it OK and the edge doesn't get dinged, you will be good for some weeks before you need a hone. Coticules are versatile, but they have a lot of natural variation and it takes some experience to learn their ways. I'd get simple waterstones (Norton 4k/8k, or a pair of Naniwas 5k and 8k), a second strop and some green chrome paste and you'll be set for life. At least until the bug bites....then come the finishing hones etc.

Chris

EL Alamein · Post by **EL Alamein** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:46 am

drmoss_ca wrote:You definitely need a strop before you go any further. If you strop it OK and the edge doesn't get dinged, you will be good for some weeks before you need a hone. Coticules are versatile, but they have a lot of natural variation and it takes some experience to learn their ways. I'd get simple waterstones (Norton 4k/8k, or a pair of Naniwas 5k and 8k), a second strop and some green chrome paste and you'll be set for life. At least until the bug bites....then come the finishing hones etc.

Chris

+1

Welcome to the club.

Chris

Blue As A Jewel · Post by **Blue As A Jewel** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:36 am

So does the process go something like... Strop for a couple of weeks or until you feel the razor is no longer performing, then hone and finish the edge with the green chrome paste, then return to just stropping until the next honing?

Post by **drmoss_ca** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:53 am

Something like that. If you can strop effectively the edge will only slowly deteriorate, until eventually you realise it isn't as good as it was. If the edge has had a good bevel, and hasn't gone too far downhill, the pasted strop will bring it back. Repeat this cycle until the edge doesn't come back with the pasted strop, and at that point you hone, then use the pasted strop, then the plain strop and you should be back where you started with a fresh blade. The 'should' depends on your skill with the hones!

Chris

Pauldog · Post by **Pauldog** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:19 am

So the "sharpening steel" that came with my Chicago Cutlery knife set isn't enough? I guess I'll stick to safety razors.

I suppose a strop would help with kitchen knives, too?

(And actually, I replaced the original Chicago Cutlery steel with a ceramic one, but I haven't used it enough to tell if it's really an improvement.)

Post by **drmoss_ca** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:33 am

Paul,
You have been banned for life.

Chris

whitebar · Post by **whitebar** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:16 pm

drmoss_ca wrote:Paul,
You have been banned for life.

Chris

Now that's funny!

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:22 pm

That's OK Paul. You have thousands of Feathers laying around, right! You're fixed for life.