Suehiro Gokumyo 20k hone

[EL Alamein]

Where have all the Dovos gone? Can't they keep up with demand, or are there no razor grinders left?

Sounds good for when I start to sell though!

Chris

Ha ha! Yes, good for selling.

I think a combination of things may be at work. Seems there's only one drop forge left in Solingen along with a lot of retiring masters according to another forum. That coupled with the depiction of James Bond exhorting the cut-throat as being better in the last Bond movie (Skyfall) may have conspired to help create the current situation. Who knows for sure though.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

Not a particularly good week with the razor—very variable results dependent on stropping. I'm not sure what that means, but it is a pain to have a great shave one day and a bad one the next depending on pressure on the strop. I suspect the double-taping of the spine has led to a larger bevel angle and I don't actually strop the edge unless I both press firmly on the strop and simultaneously hold it rather loosely. Thus the strop bends and touches the edge. Enough of that. Yesterday I rehoned with no tape at all, giving the smallest bevel angle possible. I checked under the microscope that I had created a new edge and not just rounded the shoulder of the double-taped edge, and there was no sign of the old bevel. Today I had a pleasant but unspectacular single pass shave. If things work out as usual, this edge will improve over the next few days as the repeated stroppings take effect. Then the thing will be to see how long the edge lasts. So far the edges from the 20k hone are quite nice, perhaps nearly as good as a chrome-stropped edge, but don't last quite so long. This seems to agree with your findings, Chris.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Dr. Moss, good stuff and much appreciated. I consider your work "benchmark" and I'm glad I'm getting similar results (even with inferior equipment to some degree - read "diamond plates").

I have also noticed that stropping is a key factor along with lather. If I concentrate on stropping the actual edge, even with a somewhat dull edge, I get a decent shave. Pressure need not be too much a factor here if I concentrate on what I'm doing. As long as I perceive I am keeping that edge of the edge against the drawing strop it seems good. It may not be as sharp or smooth in it's latter stages of decay but if I make a slick, thick, creamy lather it does quite well. The trade-off being closeness to the touch but not the look. The tell is when I apply the Bay Rum aftershave (Dominica), no burn whatsoever.

Chris

[Airportcopper]

I too do my honing on 1, 3,,5 k chosera then I goto a line up of the suehiro 10 k 15 k then the 20 k.. Suehiro claims this hone is the closest thing you can get to a jnat without actually using a jnat.. I have had great results hht and shaving and find it to b a great shave.. When I hit the 20 k I usually do all my finishing strokes with two layers of tape to create a 20 k micro bevel.. I used to finish on a poly webbing crox then leather just to get that extra smoothness.. Today I tried a jnat treated poly webbing strop and no crox.. I'll let u know how it goes..I have taken a shave ready gold dollar ran about 100 strokes on the 20 k to see if it would cause any micro chipping and nada none.. Other friends have done different things to different razors to test the 20 k so far no reported chipping.. The stone suehiro supplies the 1k 3k stone is actually used to clean the slurry off the stone.. Take the 1k side of the little stone and rub it up and down the stone not across.. Same on the 3k side.. It should clean and resurface the stone..

[Airportcopper]

Shave was decent not as smooth or as sharp as I remember.. Been so busy fine tuning my Jnats I wanted to go back to the suehiro with all the talk.. . Shave went well .. Gonna reset the bevel and start again see what happens..

[Brutus]

Mine is on the way now.

Will be interesting to see how long it takes from Japan, but most of all I will be keen to find out whether it will make pasting entirely superfluous for me, or will just vastly reduce the need for that chore.

I like the smoothness that paste and strop give me after refreshing with the Naniwa12k, but if I could get that from the Gokumyo, it would make the process much simpler.

[drmoss_ca]

Two weeks later and the no tape edge is still wonderful. I'll see how long it can go, but so far there is no hint that the razor needs touching up in any way.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Two weeks later and the no tape edge is still wonderful. I'll see how long it can go, but so far there is no hint that the razor needs touching up in any way.

Chris

What's your stropping routine with this edge? Are you taut or slack? If so how slack? Apply pressure or no pressure? What kind of strop? Linen/leather?

Best,
Chris

[drmoss_ca]

I use a red russion Dovo/Jemico strop, 2" wide. It was teated with neat's foot oil long ago. After each shave I use the canvas side, and before each shave I use the leather side. Because it is much narrower than my blade, I do 15 round trips with the heel of the blade on the strop, then another 15 with the point of the blade on the strop; there is some overlap in the middle of the blade and that part of the edge gets stropped twice as much. I press quite firmly with the hand holding the razor, but let the strop sag a little as I do so. I can't estimate the downward force very well, but I would guess a couple of pounds, no more.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Good stuff, thanks!

Those Jemico's are a treat!I think Tony Miller mentioned that the have some type of mild abrasive in both the linen and the leather. Still, they don't seem to deform the edge.

I think this inspires me to dig mine out and give a try this morning.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Good stuff, thanks!

Those Jemico's are a treat!I think Tony Miller mentioned that the have some type of mild abrasive in both the linen and the leather. Still, they don't seem to deform the edge.

I think this inspires me to dig mine out and give a try this morning.

Chris

Well, these are a treat. Dug out mine and used it yesterday and today with superb results. I shouldn't be surprised as I've always gotten such results from this. It rivals my "magic strop" from the days of yore with the unknown abrasive in it's linen. Very smooth shaves from this so far (this was a G 20 stone followed by a crox strop finished blade). I've traditionally relegated this Jemico to travel duty because if it's lack of width but since I'm not traveling currently for business I think I'll give it a run for some time. It's extra large sibling is on it's way to see if it's the same configuration minus the linen.

More to come.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

I've had many expensive strops but I always come back to the Red Russians. As to abrasives - there is white paste (chalk) on the canvas side but I don't think they treat the leather with anything at all (nor would I want them too). I did once have a Dovo 3" strop, and all it ever did was curl up from side to side. I oiled and rolled it with a bottle and all that nonsense and it simple curled up more. Hope yours does better1

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Dr. Moss, I have the 3" wide version in white leather. Bought more than 10 years ago from Classic when Ray was still with us. I never had a problem with it - never rolled, never cupped and was always uber flat, even to this day. The one I have is so good it's my final strop when I hone for customers (and even myself on occasion).Ten years ago I actually bought another from Classic but didn't have it for long (a few weeks maybe before the FIL poached it). It too gave the same performance. That suede like texture was easily assuaded by the excellent and now defunct Morris Flamingo Strop Dressing (which I shall horde for the rest of my life). That dressing seemed to have transformed it into a smooth yet excellent draw strop.

What is on it's way is a Red Russian version from that knifecenter place. I gather that it is the same as the red leather side of the Jemico thin strop (because it IS a Jemico) but I'm not sure. I'll let you know once I receive it. Knifecenter seems to be the exclusive seller of this kind of wide Jemico this side of the pond (at least, I didn't find any other sellers in my searches).

But for full disclosure I do have a red version of the white already, and it doesn't seem the same as the Jemico red version, at least on sight. It's called a 30 degree strop and I can't remember where I got it from but I do remember it was the only place that seemed to sell it at the time. It's actually priced less than it's white version (white Russian, as this is not tauted as Russian). It's more of a plain Jane red strop with little draw and no suede texture, certainly a much different feel of the slim width Jemico Red Russians. It works but was not quite what I was hoping it would be. It's very smooth whereas the Jemico Red Russian has some nice draw to it. If the Knifecenter version is the same as the regular thin Russian Red Jemico I shall be quite pleased (only if there's no cupping etc). I'll let you know.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

Many of my Jemicos came from Knifecenter.com. My 3" strop wasn't a red russian though, it was the standard quality Dovo and had no canvas as far as I remember. I don't remember whether it came from knifecenter or classicshaving.com.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

After three weeks I'm unhappy with the edge. So with this hone there is no need to use a pasted strop, but you have to refinish the edge every three weeks (for this particular stainless blade). So what I have done today is to use the chrome strop on it and I'll see how long I get before that needs a touch up.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

Not at all happy with the chrome stropping on top of the 20k edge, so last night I did 12 passes on the 12k Naniwa and 12 passes on the Gokumyo 20k and this morning all was well again. The edge is nice enough that I may just choose to do the above every three weeks if that's what it takes.

BTW, Chris, I went back to knifecenter.com and ordered a 3" red russian strop, but got a phonecall to say the strop isn't red but brown, isn't Jemico but is made by Dovo, and says it is a russian finish. I said to send it to me anyway, but I suspect I might end up with another brown Dovo curled-up special. Did you get a red velvety one as advertised, or is yours like the one I am being sent? I would dearly like to get a 3" version of the 2" red russian, which is such a delight to use.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

Not at all happy with the chrome stropping on top of the 20k edge, so last night I did 12 passes on the 12k Naniwa and 12 passes on the Gokumyo 20k and this morning all was well again. The edge is nice enough that I may just choose to do the above every three weeks if that's what it takes.

BTW, Chris, I went back to knifecenter.com and ordered a 3" red russian strop, but got a phonecall to say the strop isn't red but brown, isn't Jemico but is made by Dovo, and says it is a russian finish. I said to send it to me anyway, but I suspect I might end up with another brown Dovo curled-up special. Did you get a red velvety one as advertised, or is yours like the one I am being sent? I would dearly like to get a 3" version of the 2" red russian, which is such a delight to use.

Chris

Dr. Moss, I have been remiss to post back about the Red Russian wide Strop. I suspect you got a call because what I received was another "brown" wide strop. I sent it back as I already have one.

I called Knifecenter when I received it and talked to one of their CSR's and it turns out that the Red Russian wide strop has been discontinued since production was taken over by Dovo but Dovo never informed them. The CSR said they would change the website to reflect the new knowledge. I think as of now it shows as "Discontinued" (Western Civilization continues to crumble!).

To my eye the new "brown" strop isn't quite the same quality of my old one but that may be due to aesthetics. I didn't have the chance to evaluate it from a performance standpoint because it went right back in the box and back to the Kifecenter. But, the back isn't that crinkly red pressing that Jemico does but a flat black. So perhaps it's just a style point but I like the red crinkly backing, it had character.

I've actually done more searching for the elusive Wide Red Russian Jemico just to see if I could find find any old stock. Nada. I did find a "Herold, Wild Juchten" version that looks like the Jemico but I have my doubts. Looking at the pictures it looks a lot more like my 30 Degree strop from Royal Shave which is NOT the equivalent of the old Red Russian Jemicos. The coloring is slightly different which is the giveaway. The 30 Degree strop is cheaper than it's tan version for a reason - it's different and doesn't have anything like the draw of a Jemico. It's a good strop, it's very slick with little to no drawl. It will NOT do what a true Jemico Red Russian will do IMHO.

My promise to you is if I ever find a quantity of the old Jemico Wide Red Russian strops somewhere I will buy at least two and send you one. So if you get a package from me out of the blue you'll know why but it's looking very grim for this.

Best,
Chris

[EL Alamein]

Not at all happy with the chrome stropping on top of the 20k edge, so last night I did 12 passes on the 12k Naniwa and 12 passes on the Gokumyo 20k and this morning all was well again. The edge is nice enough that I may just choose to do the above every three weeks if that's what it takes.

BTW, Chris, I went back to knifecenter.com and ordered a 3" red russian strop, but got a phonecall to say the strop isn't red but brown, isn't Jemico but is made by Dovo, and says it is a russian finish. I said to send it to me anyway, but I suspect I might end up with another brown Dovo curled-up special. Did you get a red velvety one as advertised, or is yours like the one I am being sent? I would dearly like to get a 3" version of the 2" red russian, which is such a delight to use.

Chris

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't like the Crox strop on top of a USED G20 edge. I think micro chipping maybe the problem. Did you take it through a progression first? Also, breadknifing on the G20 BEFORE the progression will go a long way to create a smooth edge.

I also allow a slight amount of slack in Crox strop when finishing from a progression. And true to form I allow a slight slack in the final linen and plain leather stropping.

BTW, I received some Shapton Glass hones (1k, 4k, 8k, & 16k). Wow are they fast! And my preliminary impressions is that the 16k is not suited for straights. More to come on this as I'm still testing as I have time.

Chris

[drmoss_ca]

The Dovo 3" strop finally arrived and it IS a russian leather, but is not red, just a buff colour. It certainly has the velvety surface that I expect. It is currently flat, but has very little draw. The question is shall I add a little oil and risk it curving? I think I'l maybe just use my hand on it for a while and see if just enough oil comes from my skin to increase the draw.

Chris

[EL Alamein]

The Dovo 3" strop finally arrived and it IS a russian leather, but is not red, just a buff colour. It certainly has the velvety surface that I expect. It is currently flat, but has very little draw. The question is shall I add a little oil and risk it curving? I think I'l maybe just use my hand on it for a while and see if just enough oil comes from my skin to increase the draw.

Chris

Dr. Moss, the Dovo yellow fat dressing is pretty good for this as it's the closest thing to the old Morris Flamingo strop dressing. It will help produce a heavy draw.

Good luck with it.

Chris