Newbie discontent

[Brofro]

I started trying to wet shave, after reading Corey Greenbergs article and some of the posting on various wet shaving sites, about a month ago. After a most promising start of smooth shaves with no bumps or irritations , feeling proud, and plenty of compliments from my wife , unfortunately I have started to develop some major skin irritation and ingrown hairs under my jawline around my neck area. It's very red (ouch) and there is some discoloration coupled with white bumps.

Routine:
I started my routine daily by :

Usually in the morning, soaking badger brush in mug of hot water, washing face with Anthony Logistics Citrus Cleansing Bar while in shower , applying Hair Conditioner and Pacific Shave Oil directly on wet face while still in shower. Create lather (Taylor of Old Bond Street Shaving Cream ) in mug , shave (Merkur Heavy Duty DE Razor ) in North - South direction for the first and second pass, always with grain( I did try against the grain on second pass once and it turned my face into a mine-field) Wash face in warm and then cold water. Apply Sharps Daily Prep Skin Tuner , Brave Soldier Code Blue After Shave Gel,Aloe80 .
I clean and moisturize my face at least twice a day (with the products I purchased from You (QED) and M/E).

As you can see, I am not using all of the products that are in my cabinet, I am trying to cut back to determine what's working for me and what is not. Thus far, shamefully, I have tried various combination and nothing has worked for me .


After about 2 1/2 weeks started to notice that
there were some bumps starting to form under my jawline , so I decided to cut back to shaving every other day, well that only made the situation worse.

History :

Over the years I have gone from trying to wet shave with commercial products meaning ...single (bic) , double (sensor) and triple blades (Gillette) and over the counter shave creams , gels and aftershaves while in the military. In fact for a significant period of time, while in the military, I wore a beard as a result of shaving with razors , I obtained a "no shave chit" from the Hospital Corpsman's Unit (U.S. Navy).

Since then I have tried using electric razors and never have been able to obtain a consistent, close and comfortable shave. The last ten years I have alternated between wearing a close cut beard and dry shaving with Men's hair clippers. I work in a professional environment however, and facial hair is frowned down upon and electrics and hair clippers have not been able to deliver in a acceptable way.

Is it to much to ask to be able to obtain a certain level of professional grooming that would be accomplished thru a clean shaving face, minus the unsightly bumps and skin discoloration ?


I purchased all of these products because they were touted as being the best , and now I am really wondering if there is something that I am missing- product wise, or is my technique the problem, or could it be that African Americans should be using some different type
of products because of our coarser curly hair ?

Current Products : Aloe80
Anthony Logistics Citrus Cleansing Bar
Anthony Logistics Glycolic Facial Cleanser
Anthony Logistics Facial Moisturizer SPF15

Baxter of California Skin Toner Facial Scrub
Baxter of California Enriched Night Cream
Coral Skin Food
Jojoba oil
Merkur Heavy Duty DE Razor
Merkur DE Safety Razor Blades
Rose Water Hydrosol
Sharps Daily Prep Skin Tuner
Taylor of Old Bond Street Shaving Cream
Vulfix Super Badger Shaving Brush
Brave Soldier Code Blue After Shave Gel
Pacific Shave Oil
Hair Conditioner



By the way , I read in one of the post on this site that Pacific Shave Oil could shorten the life span of effectiveness of a Badger Brush. What's your opinion on that and any ideas/ suggestions towards me coming up with a solution to this chronic problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for you patience and the sharing of your wisdom.

[Austin]

You may want to delete the Pacific Shave Oil in the shower. Apply it to the face prior to the shave. PSO is probably going down the drain in the shower.

Secondly, you did not state which Taylor shave cream you have. Have you tried the shave cream made specifically for sensitive skin or the avocado cream?

Try not to apply any pressure to the razor as you shave. Let the razor glide across your face under its own weight.

I'm sure other member have more suggestions.

[growler]

Brofro:

Maybe try a different blade? I use Wilkinson Sword, which start out pretty darn sharp (though don't last all that long for my stubble).

Also, you might want to consider an adjustable of some sort. I'm thinking that you need something way less aggressive for your neck.

Tend Skin is supposed to help razor bumps, but I don't know if it would work for you. Maybe you could try to get a sample and see?

[growler]

And I just found this:

http://www.headshaver.org/articles/arti ... bumps.html

lots of info there. Forgive me if none of it is new to you.

[Brofro]

Growler,
I appreciate your suggestions and the website url.

Austin the PSO is actually applied once I leave the shower, my fault.

[honkdonker]

I have a couple of suggestions that may help:

1. Cut down on the products you use. Only use water to clean face.
2. Apply NO PRESSURE WHATSOEVER when shaving. Weight of razor only.
3. Use a post shave moisturizer without and fragrance, etc. ie Cetaphil.

Minimize any product on face, esp. those with fragrance, etc. Just use a preshave oil, your cream, and Cetaphil type moisturizer for awhile. This may help.

Sometimes, more is less.

Thanks.

[AACJ]

By the way , I read in one of the post on this site that Pacific Shave Oil could shorten the life span of effectiveness of a Badger Brush. What's your opinion on that and any ideas/ suggestions towards me coming up with a solution to this chronic problem would be greatly appreciated.

Do ANY and ALL oils shorten the effectivness of a badger brush? Or is it just the PSO? I like the way my skin feels after using shave oil, so smooth and supple and a close shave.

I also have used shave oil, mainly the sample from AOS, but will be buying something from Charles in the near future. But I shave in the shower, with the water OFF, so when I put it on my face, it stays on.

Good luck on your shaving adventure!

[JoeDizzy]

Brofro, sounds like you have done your homework and have gotten good advice here and in previous posts. Couple other things I might suggest(if you haven't already tried): Check in with a skin doctor who is familiar with problems similiar to yours. If you see someone at work or out and about that has the same skin type and seems to have a handle on his face, ask what regimen he uses. Might have to ask around quite a bit to get some advice that will help you.

I have ingrowns from time to time but not near on your level or others suffering from PFB(spelling?), thus my experiences might not be beneficial for this specific problem. I think Themba(fellow member) might have some suggestions. Maybe we have others who suffer similiar problems with the same skin type who will chime. I hope you can get some answers to your problem, as I am sure it is painful and not too fun to deal with.

[bernards66]

Brofro, Just as a general observation, I think that Honk is right, you're way over doing it with the products, IMO. Maybe scale back to something simplier, more along the lines of what he suggested. Piling product on top of product is unlikely to help, and is likely complicating the situation. Now, about your problem. It's worth noting that it's area specific. I gather that the shave over most of your face is okay? It's the area right along and below the jaw bone that's the problem, it seems. This is my most challenging area as well. Something is different about the shave in this area, vs. elsewhere. What is it? There would seem to be two main possibilities: 1) your beard in this area is different in some significent way, or 2) your technique somehow shifts or isn't maintained properly, when you shave this area. Perhaps it's a little of both. Study your beard carefully in this area, and see what you can see. Are your razor strokes very short, and very light? Is the skin taut? Might a bit different angle be indicated in this area? Perhaps using a Bic for Sensitive Skin for this section might help for awhile ( now that your using much better shave products, a brush, etc., it's a different thing then years ago ). I'm sure that there is a way to do this, but it may take some time, careful observation, and patience to discover it. BTW, Pacific Shave Oil should not harm your brush, but 'pre-shave oil', like the AOS very well might. Regards, Gordon

[themba]

Brofro, I would like to throw my 2 cents of info into this post. Before I do, as mentioned previously, definitely cut back on the amount of products you are using. Also, not just the amount of products, but choose the those without fragrance and those designed for sensitive skin.

I would suggest you try a Schick/PAL injector type razor. I have found that they have all but eliminated my past ingrown problems. (Browse the Schick Injector post here in the razors section of the forum). I am a recent convert to injector type razors and I can't say enough about them in regards to preventing PFB. If you want to keep using a DE style razor, then try a Gillette adjustable. It is very gentle and as mention in a previous post the adjustability will allow you to change setting to prevent irritation. Remember, Keep it simple and first eliminate fragranced and perfumed products to see what works.

My regiment, and supplies
(I am always tweaking and revising what I use)

Saville Row super badger brush
PAL adjustable stainless steel injector
Toothbrush used as a beard lifter comb.
Kiss my face moisture shave uncented shave cream
Secret Shave shaving oil
Kiss my Face olive oil soap: used to wash face.

After the shave I use Bump Patrol (similar to Tend skin)
Face moisturizer I use a little shave oil. If I need to control oil on my face, I use Nivea oil control face lotion.

[Joe Lerch]

You haven't said a thing about how you use the razor. That should be the first point of focus. Are you diligent about a light touch? Do you control the angle of the blade? Scraping your face produces irritation and can result in all sorts of problems. Minimize the angle of the blade by maximizing the angle of the razor handle. Then let the razor glide over your face using the hand only to guide it and keep it from falling away.

The second thing I would look at is how frequently you change blades. When you have coarse curly hair, you need to change blades well before they begin dragging. Any amount of drag will pull a hair before cutting it. That lifts the hair and cuts it so short that when it pops back it's below the surface of the skin. With curly hair that's a formula for ingrowing. Your blades need to be cutting cleanly without pressure being applied.

If you try all this for a while and it doesn't help, the DE blades may be too flexible for you. This happens with African American men. Try something with a heavier blade. A BIC metal would be good. That blade won't flex as much and may work better. If you use it for a while and it's an improvement, you should consider switching to a Schick injector. You can find them on Ebay.

When you try all this, you need to minimize your prep to what is necessary. All of your products are great, but they may be masking basic problems. Develop a sound shaving technique first.

I started trying to wet shave, after reading Corey Greenbergs article and some of the posting on various wet shaving sites, about a month ago. After a most promising start of smooth shaves with no bumps or irritations , feeling proud, and plenty of compliments from my wife , unfortunately I have started to develop some major skin irritation and ingrown hairs under my jawline around my neck area. It's very red (ouch) and there is some discoloration coupled with white bumps.

[Coche_y_bondhu]

Brofro,

I don't know where on this forum you read that PSO affects the lathering ability and lifespan of a badger brush. PSO has no negative efffects whatsoever on badger brushes. Please read my shave oil experiment with PSO on this forum, posted some time in February.

For PSO to work, you must wet your beard, then apply it on your beard. If you do not feel a very slick beard, your beard is not wet enough. PSO is activated by water; what you splash on your face and what is in the lather when you use your brush. To reactivate PSO, just rewet the beard.

You must use it just prior to lathering up.

I, personally, will not shave without it. I make sure I always have an ample supply on hand.

Cheers,
Richard
Long-time PSO User in Texas

[Joe Lerch]

Do you think it could help the ingrown problem in any way?

Brofro,

I don't know where on this forum you read that PSO affects the lathering ability and lifespan of a badger brush. PSO has no negative efffects whatsoever on badger brushes. Please read my shave oil experiment with PSO on this forum, posted some time in February.

For PSO to work, you must wet your beard, then apply it on your beard. If you do not feel a very slick beard, your beard is not wet enough. PSO is activated by water; what you splash on your face and what is in the lather when you use your brush. To reactivate PSO, just rewet the beard.

You must use it just prior to lathering up.

I, personally, will not shave without it. I make sure I always have an ample supply on hand.

Cheers,
Richard
Long-time PSO User in Texas

[guenron]

...SNIP...
By the way , I read in one of the post on this site that Pacific Shave Oil could shorten the life span of effectiveness of a Badger Brush. What's your opinion on that and any ideas/ suggestions towards me coming up with a solution to this chronic problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for you patience and the sharing of your wisdom.

For a light-hearted note on this problem go to:
http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1446
Message entitled: "High Mountain Badgers Walkin' Down the Road"

[Coche_y_bondhu]

Hello Again, Brofro

Perhaps it is time to simplify things and establish a new baseline.

Why not try:

1) Wash face with good quality face (not bath) soap; glycerin-based is also good. Do not overwash face during the day; your face needs some natural oils to stay healthy; you don't want to wash them all away.
2) Soak your beard with hot water (if I can't keep my hand in it, it's too hot) for about two minutes. Watch if your fingertips are wrinkling; if they are, your beard is probably doing something similar and affecting the glide of the razor.
3) Apply about 10 drops of PSO to your wet palms and massage into your wet beard. Make sure beard is wet and slick prior to lathering up.
4) Switch temporarily to a Bump Fighter razor made especially for African-American skin and the ingrown hair issues. You can get the Bump Fighter at http://www.emsplace.com/bcprod/bump_fighter.asp, or Wal-Mart.
5) Maybe just do one with-the-grain pass for now. If you feel brave, try a second with-the-grain pass. Make sure you rewet the beard and reapply the PSO prior to each lathering. The beard must feel slick after applying PSO, else you don't have enough water on the beard.
6) After the last pass, rinse with hot water to remove soap residue.
7) Rinse with cold water to close pores.
8 Pat your face and beard dry.
9) Spray on the hydrosol generously; you can't overdose on hydrosol.
10) That's it.

See how the face feels. Take along a tube of aloe vera gel to the office as a backup. Also take along the hydrosol if you have room; to spritz on during the day for relief if you need it.

From your inital description, you have a lot of things going on, from techniques to products. Lots of variables.

Once you establish a baseline that is comfortable for you and produces results for you, then you can start expanding your horizons... slowly.

As they say in the IT world, we need to go back to a system restore point where everything works .

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers,
Richard
South of OK

[Joe Lerch]

If you change everything at the same time you'll never figure out what the problem is.

This sounds like a problem with shaving technique and that's where you should start.

Hello Again, Brofro

Perhaps it is time to simplify things and establish a new baseline.

Why not try:

1) Wash face with good quality face (not bath) soap; glycerin-based is also good. Do not overwash face during the day; your face needs some natural oils to stay healthy; you don't want to wash them all away.
2) Soak your beard with hot water (if I can't keep my hand in it, it's too hot) for about two minutes. Watch if your fingertips are wrinkling; if they are, your beard is probably doing something similar and affecting the glide of the razor.
3) Apply about 10 drops of PSO to your wet palms and massage into your wet beard. Make sure beard is wet and slick prior to lathering up.
4) Switch temporarily to a Bump Fighter razor made especially for African-American skin and the ingrown hair issues. You can get the Bump Fighter at http://www.emsplace.com/bcprod/bump_fighter.asp, or Wal-Mart.
5) Maybe just do one with-the-grain pass for now. If you feel brave, try a second with-the-grain pass. Make sure you rewet the beard and reapply the PSO prior to each lathering. The beard must feel slick after applying PSO, else you don't have enough water on the beard.
6) After the last pass, rinse with hot water to remove soap residue.
7) Rinse with cold water to close pores.
8 Pat your face and beard dry.
9) Spray on the hydrosol generously; you can't overdose on hydrosol.
10) That's it.

See how the face feels. Take along a tube of aloe vera gel to the office as a backup. Also take along the hydrosol if you have room; to spritz on during the day for relief if you need it.

From your inital description, you have a lot of things going on, from techniques to products. Lots of variables.

Once you establish a baseline that is comfortable for you and produces results for you, then you can start expanding your horizons... slowly.

As they say in the IT world, we need to go back to a system restore point where everything works .

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers,
Richard
South of OK

[Coche_y_bondhu]

Hello Brofro,

I agree with Joe. You should start with evaluating your technique; hence, that is why I suggested a simple one for you. Then you can continue further isolating until you come upon the right technique and products that work for you.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Richard
Plano TX