What is the most classic scent in shaving?

yayavarman · Post by **yayavarman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:54 am

What is considered to be the most classic scent in shaving? The scent of the period of 1800-1900.

Excuse the extremely short post. I didnt know what else to put in here

gsgo · Post by **gsgo** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:51 am

An interesting question - my guess would be something like Lavender, Rose or Sandalwood. But if we take a hint from some of the older colognes of the day 4711, C&M No. 6, Bay Rum and Florida Water you see some citrus and spice.

Look forward to seeing what our elder "noses" come up with for this good question.

teabag · Post by **teabag** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:53 am

Rose perhaps? Trumpers claim their rose shave cream/soap has been around for 130 years or so.

Regards,

Phil.

Big Ren · Post by **Big Ren** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:00 am

This is yet another one of those questions for which there is no definitive answer, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd go with almond, which seems to be common among many of the old British and Italian firms.

Ren

GollyMrScience · Post by **GollyMrScience** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:11 am

I guess we don't want to get confused by the difference between oldest and most classic. Also are we talking a constructed "scent" as in combination of ingredients designed for an olfactory impact or just an on purpose applied single scent like rose or lavender?
Guys have been slathering themselves with some scent or another after shaving for a VERY long time. I am sure that by the time of the Pharaohs there were already ungents and rinses meant for shaving that were pretty sophisticated for their day.
So to me a classic scent would be one that has been around for a long time and is still popular - never having gone out of style rather than a scent used in medieval times that has historical interest to us shaving nerds perhaps but has not stood the test of time.
We could certainly pick some popular so called single scents that would have paralleled the perfume industry - rose, lavender, sandalwood, and almond for instance either as single scents or in combination.
Funny though - if I drop back to my definition of a scent that has been and remains popular after many years and not a single base scent but a constructed complex offering my mind pops to ***get this**** Tabac and Old Spice. LOL

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:49 am

I'm with Tom on this one; for me it's the 'smell of the barbershop'
Inclusive of talc, hair tonic, the Lustray spice (by the gallon!)

The smells of your youth, the first smells you recall, they are the strongest

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:55 am

I concur with Ren in that no simple and definative answer can be given to your question. We do, however, have some pertinent information. All of the oldest English shave cream pot lids that I have seen have been in 'Ambrosia' scent. Ambrosia was understood to mean variations of 'almond'....however various firms chose to interpret that. Violet and lavender begin showing up a bit later in the 19th c. We also know that Lavender Water and 4711 style eau de colognes and various eau de Portugals, and similiar, were popular in London society during much of the 19th c. as were earlier versions of Spanish and Russian leather. These scented waters were primarily used in barber shops and gentlemen's clubs. Bay Rum was another Victorian era staple in these establishments, but it seems to have been an American scent originally which the British, and in particular, the Royal Navy, picked up. Rose seems to have been originally used primarily in hair dressings. The orginal Atkinson's product was a bear grease based hair pomade which was rose scented. It first appeared around 1800 in England and was later exported to the United States as well. So, these are some of the gentlemen's scents that were often utilized in various grooming products during the period that you specified.
Regards,
Gordon

M6Classic · Post by **M6Classic** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:51 am

Nineteenth Century on into the Twentieth? Bay rum would be a good choice. Bay rum or witch hazel, perhaps. Of course, our European and British bretheren might demur, but it was they who carried bay rum back home from the Caribbean.

Buzz

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:12 pm

I'm onto a potentially lucrative sideline as a result of reading Gordon's information. I'm getting a formula together for some Rose Bear Grease Hair Pomade. I'm making it available for pre-ordering here, to all of you who will certainly pounce on it. Pricing and pre-ordering details to follow. Those certainly sound like they were indeed the good old days.

Seriously, it's fun to try to imagine what tastes and smells would have been available and popular many years ago.

Post by **drmoss_ca** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:27 pm

I'll buy some if the bear was killed with your own bare hands!

Chris

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:34 pm

On my list, that is one of the first things I've written. I'll have to get back to you on that.

ELJAY · Post by **ELJAY** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:22 pm

I can only think of 4711.

Eljay

jww · Post by **jww** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:38 pm

For me it's two scents - Old Spice and Sandalwood. ymmv

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:28 pm

Wendell, He said, "1800-1900", Old Spice did not come out until the 1930s, and the first version was actually marketed as a ladies cologne (!). I also find little evidence that sandalwood was used much in men's grooming products during that period It's interesting to note that the three older Trumper shave creams are their Almond, Violet, and Rose. The other three didn't even appear until the 1980s.
Regards,
Gordon

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:32 pm

Buzz, Although the information is scanty and vague, while bay rum might have it's ultimate origins in the West Indies, as a product resembling anything available today I think it was first created in the United States.
Regards,
Gordon

gsgo · Post by **gsgo** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:15 am

Gordon,

Quick question for you, what is the origin and timing of Sandalwood emerging into men's toiletries?

I am surprised about almond being used that far back.

Cheers,

M6Classic · Post by **M6Classic** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:41 am

bernards66 wrote:Buzz, Although the information is scanty and vague, while bay rum might have it's ultimate origins in the West Indies, as a product resembling anything available today I think it was first created in the United States.
Regards,
Gordon

You are quite possibly right, Gordon, as usual. I always assumed that bay rum was made from a West Indian pimenta bay tree, but that was only my assumption based upon one course in the geography of the exploration era Caribbean taken many, many years ago.

Buzz

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:06 pm

Buzz, Indeed, pimenta bay from the West Indies is the central note in bay rum, and while some sort of rather primitive product utilizing it seems to have been used in the Islands pretty far back, the blending of it with other scents to create barber's products; hair lotions, aftershaves, and cologne waters, seems to have it's origins in America. I've seen references to it in literature from the first half of the 19th c. both from your area and from New Orleans. Many years ago, the D R Harris's version was actually called 'American Bay Rum'.....and Harris's has been in the business for awhile ( chuckle ).
Regards,
Gordon

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:28 pm

Gary, Well, that's an awfully complex and murky question. Sandalwood, as a wood, has been used for centuries for scent, even in the West. Beau Brummel wanted a sedan chair made entirely out of it, but was reluctantly given to understand that it could not be used as it wouldn't bear the weight. He settled for having the inside of the compartment mostly paneled with it. But it's use in men's toiletries doesn't seem to have been common, at least not in England and America. During the 1700s, when lusher scents were in style, it may have been used some....I'm not certain. Jasmine was, certainly. But lighter scents came in with the Napoleonic period. Penhaligon's Hammam Bouquet was created in 1872 and sandalwood is a significent aspect of it's basenote....but it's not a 'sandalwood cologne'. During the Victorian and Edwardian periods, musk seems to have been the most popular fixative for men's scents. I've certainly never seen a 19th or early 20th c. shave cream pot lid that said 'sandalwood' on it. Most of the really old hard shave soaps that are still around seem to be mostly lavender/citrus/verbena/'quinine' sorts of affairs ( and the rose and violet St. James's stuff, of course ). Even as late as the 1990s, T&H shave creams were available in Almond, Rose, and Lavender only. So, I don't think that noticeable 'sandalwood' style notes were used that much in men's colognes until the 1950s, and in traditional shave products until considerably later than that even.
Regards,
Gordon

GollyMrScience · Post by **GollyMrScience** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:09 pm

I guess I keep getting sucked into a eurocentric world with the question.
We of course lean towards talking about classic soaps etc from France, England etc but men (and women) in other parts of the civilized world liked to smell nice and had to shave. Its just that we didn't get to hear much about it.
Sandalwood for instance may have been way more popular in the middle east than in Europe in the time frame we are discussing. In the time of Marco Polo I am sure that some of these scents would have been introduced as "exotic".