What's the Endgame (Or, Toward an Exit...)?

[CMur12]

Well, Tim, I'm sorry to read this. Whenever I see "TBoner" I know it will be well written, informative, and well worth reading. At the same time, I can see the wisdom in your decision and I wish you the very best.

Thanks for all the meaningful contributions you have made to SMF camaraderie and the shared wetshaving experience. I'll be watching for you SOTDs.

In my own case, I find myself now much less interested in endless experimentation, looking instead to settle on favorite razors, blades, brushes, and soaps, and to deepen my understanding thereof with fewer distractions.

In my mind, the endgame is to achieve consistently rewarding shaves with favorite shave goods that have proven themselves best suited to my needs, and to share that knowledge with new wetshavers.

Take care, Tim. You will be missed!

- Murray

[TRBeck]

In my mind, the endgame is to achieve consistently rewarding shaves with favorite shave goods that have proven themselves best suited to my needs, and to share that knowledge with new wetshavers.

It's appropriate that this was the last response to this thread originally, and I want to say that I agree, Murray, but first let me thank everyone for their kind words.

Next, a little update on this pilgrim's progress: In a little over a month, I've sold off most of what I want to unload. A few fragrances remain that must go, but I believe my small rotation of soaps and creams is nearly settled. Then again, every time I think I'm done selling things off, I realize that there's something else I don't need, or more accurately, don't want. I have a tendency to force asceticism on myself, but this is something different. I honestly have no desire to use much of what I have in my den. I think about another aftershave, but then I realize that Thayer's or Harris/Poor Man's Pink leaves my face feeling better. I give a cream or soap a whirl and find it lacking in some respect and immediately regret that I didn't use one of my trusty favorites.

A bit of perspective. I'm not really talking fidelity here (yet), but a sort of middle path. I have 6 soaps (3 are AOS, so only 4 different "formulae"), 4 creams, 2 aftershaves (discounting those aftershaves that I wear as cologne for the day), 1 DE, and my beloved boars. Lots of variety, but little variation in the shave itself. Perfect. Even my fragrance "wardrobe" is way down, under ten for the first time since shortly after I started wetshaving.

But one thing I've found is that the less I have, the less I want. I get down to 8 soaps and immediately realize there are two others I no longer have any use for. Last week, I was talking to my wife and told her that if I had to, I could get down to two soaps, two creams, two brushes, two razors (need a straight to go with the DE) and perhaps 4 EdTs. And the thing is, I realized that for the first time, I really believed it. Not just some hypothetical thing...I know exactly what I would keep if I went this route. And it would still be a helluva nice shave den.

I may get there yet, but in the meantime, though I read very little here, I do still poke my head in on threads here and there. I mean not to, but I'm on the site to post SOTD or send a PM, and the mouse practically moves itself. Still, I haven't had much of an itchy trigger finger, I think because I've made the conscious and public decision to avoid buying. Also, I'm locked in with great shaves and why mess it up?

So my focus going forward will shift. I am going to abstain from anything but SOTD, selling, and PMs in the short-term, but I expect soon I'll feel like I can post regularly. I have had a good time introducing a friend of mine to wetshaving in recent months, and Murray's comment about helping new wetshavers is representative of my own feeling lately. I want to enjoy my shaves, but also help others, in whatever form that takes here on the forum. After all, Lord knows I've tried a helluva lot of stuff, for better or worse.

Concurrently, to echo what Chris said about enjoying my special interests, I no longer feel compelled to explore products, but I do want to keep exploring wetshaving. I'm not bored yet. Specifically, I want to use a neglected segment of my den: straights, hones, and strop. I will probably have some time now that my graduate school semester is over and the school year at work is approaching its end, and I am going to try to educate myself in how to use these tools that have been sitting unused for a year or so. I can shave with a straight, but after my two well-honed blades dulled, I never bothered learning the skills of resharpening so that I could use them into perpetuity. I have downloaded some stuff from SRP to use for education, but I want to stay away from there lest I go back down the rabbit hole and start buying up strops and hones. I will probably be asking many questions whenever I start posting again, seeking guidance on what has long been a goal of mine: becoming self-sufficient as a wetshaver.

BTW, I may yet sell off more of the den. As I said, the less I have, the less I want, and a vision of two soaps, two creams, etc., seems to flit in and out of the corners of my mind these days.

Back into hiding for a while longer...

Best,
Tim

[brothers]

Tim, intereting reading, to be sure. Thanks for being willing to share your thoughts. I do want to state, not to you, or to anyone specifically, but it is a fact that whatever we, as guys, normally become interested in does have the possibility to dominate in certain areas that perhaps don't need to be "dominated".

I know these two guys, one, my late brother, and the other, a friend of both of us, whom we've known for years. They didn't have young kids at home like I did, and they weren't broke like I seem to be most of the time, and together they moved from guns and ammo to cameras, to flying model airplanes, to automobiles, motorcycles when they were younger, then back to this or that, spending hundreds or more at a time, several times a year, not $30 on some soap. So it's all pretty much the same, just at different costs.

I think my shaving expenditures and returns are leveled off at around a thousand bucks or less in total. I'm just using this same pot of money to buy, sell, trade and occasionally consume these shaving goods over and over again. Flowing in and out, costing me about nothing much over the initial outlay. I've gotta shave every day anyway, so now I get to have an outstanding shave every day.

Here's a big PS: Straight razors can tip that scale to the max. The big bucks are in new razors, customs, hones in an endless variety, strops, pastes, on and on. I've known that, so I stay to the flea markets. All of my favorite razors are bought in the range of $10 to $20. I've made two 3 digit purchases, the Norton hones in a kit from Peachtree, and one custom razor that came to me well-used, and I'm staying away from chasing after one hone or the other depending on what's popular among the guys posting on SRP at any given time.

I had a CK12, realized there was better out there, sold it and bought a Shapton 16K, and believe me, I could easily start buying more expensive hones, but it "ain't happenin". I've challenged myself to reach a state of skill in sharpening my own razors that gets me where I want to be with my 11 vintage razors and my one custom razor. I'm not there yet, but I'm almost there.

This year I'll have my favorite shaving gear and products all settled and enough backups laid in to last me 15 years, by plan. 30 years of blades.

If you were able to reach a permanent resolution for your personal challenge through the simple and demonstrably inexpensive shaving avocatiion, then you are fortunate indeed.

[95%]

What distinguished Tim from the run-of-the-mill wetshaver was that he approached the subject not so much as a hobby, but as a branch of knowledge - a field of engineering - to be mastered. In just a couple of years he acquired the knowledge and experience that mere hobbyists might need decades to acquire. I surmise, and it's nothing more than a guess, that his intensive, one might almost say compulsive, study of the subject deprived him of the simple enjoyment that a hobby brings.

[TRBeck]

Points well taken, Gary. Men are spenders when it comes to hobbies, which is one reason I do intend to steer clear of too many hones. I would like to have an Illinois strop for daily use. I would like to use the hones I have and do the best possible job I can with them and then see if I can get by or maybe buy one more hone. Those are things I intend to ask about here at the appropriate time.

Porter, you're too generous with your comments. I have tried a lot of stuff, to be sure, and my goal has always been so focused on perfection and mastery that I have not always enjoyed shaving. Very true. But Squire, Gordon, Chris Fisher, Chris Moss, Zach, Basil (levente), and dozens of others are the guys who've been at this awhile and really have tried everything. Their insights are valuable because they have used things for months or even years on end, whereas my verdict is often the result of a few days' or weeks' experience. For instance, it was only a couple of months ago that I began to discern the finer distinctions between the lathers of T&H and Taylor. I always knew which shaved me better, which I liked more, but I didn't fully grasp the difference in their textures and traits as they were constantly in and out of the rotation.

The times I've most enjoyed this hobby were the times when I used a few select items with regularity and didn't try too hard. I'm just trying to be there while still participating at SMF, which is a delicate balance for my particular personality.

Regards,

[bernards66]

Tim, Well, that can be a "difficult balance" as you say, but it is doable I think. Stick around.
Regards,
Gordon

[rsp1202]

Tim, just wonderful reading -- and reasoning -- behind all this. We're very similar in that we dove into this hobby fast and hard, but obviously you've learned much more along the way and have deconstructed/reconstructed the finer points in a more rewarding way. I'm very impatient and expect it will take me a bit longer to reach your level, but I'm in it for the long haul since this continues to be too much fun to give up.

I hope you remain on board and continue to offer your expertise and civility as it's greatly appreciated.

[bernards66]

Tim, Readers of my posts, over the years, will have picked up that my approach is that 'middle way' that you mentioned. As I said, I've never gone gonzo with purchases, but I've always also said that I had no interest in pushing my 'fidelity' trip to the point of one brush, one cream, etc. although I 'could' come close to that if there was a pressing need to do so. But there isn't, so I don't. Although I have a bit more around, two hard soaps, two pots of cream, and two tubes would be just fine by me...and that's what it will probably wind up to be eventually as things get used up. I only use one DE razor, although I have two or three back-up models and, as you know, I don't mess around with varying blades. One A/S preparation, and say, three or four colognes would certainly suffice.

One time, Corey Greenberg asked me why I continued to hang around since my 'shaving bones were well settled'....I'd tried all kinds of stuff, knew what I favoured, and why...etc. I replied that I enjoyed the diversion of yakking about this stuff with other interested chaps ( I hardly ever watch TV, or other common 'down time' activities that many avail themselves of ), and that I thought it worthwhile to try and help out the newcomer....even if it meant covering the same topic for the upteenth time. That 'helping out' component is a major part of what these forums are about I believe. Again, thanks for the thoughtful posts on this subject, and glad to hear that we may expect to be hearing from you fairly regularly in future.
Regards,
Gordon

[notthesharpest]

Tim
You and I are similar in some ways.

I think that while in specific terms there is no be-all end-all perfect best this or that, and that we could look forever, tinker forever, and never find it, I think that in general we (all of us on this board and you and I in particular) already have so close to the best possible stuff as makes no difference, and (for those of us who have listened anyway) have picked up enough shaving knowledge to last us the rest of our lives.

I came back a few days ago. Though I didn't intend to spend a lot of time, I've been constantly on ever since. I've sold a bunch of stuff I didn't use anymore. I've turned that money around and bought the ultimate brush, both in the sense of best (for my taste) and in the sense of last. (Unless I live to be 140, in which case somebody might have to buy me a shaving brush when I hit 125 or 130.)

I have lots of nice shaving stuff. I know how to shave well enough for my own purposes, and could teach somebody else if I needed to. I've given out more than my share of internet advice - hopefully some of it even useful to somebody. But it seems to me that I don't ever develop the skill of "just hanging around" in a moderate way like some of the others do, without going overboard in terms of time.

[Marsom]

Tim,

I totally know where you're coming from. I used to really have very much the same tendencies and probably still do, but not nearly as much. Interestingly enough, these tendencies don't cross over much into other areas of interest in my life. At one point, I finally realized that the game pretty much was over. I learned how to get good shaves. I know without a doubt what REALLY works best... DE or Sensor, somewhat softer less dense brush, and shave cream/soap with no synthetic fragrance. I still do end up buying stuff that I don't need. Most of the time, it ends up getting sold which usually is somewhat annoying because every time I buy something that I don't need because of the idea of having it, I end up always saying "damn it, you know what works for you." "Leave well enough alone and quit wasting your money." I don't post much on the forum and tend to browse on it when I don't have enough going on in my life... too much time on my hands which is not optimal for me for sure. When I'm busy, I check in when I'm curious about something or just wanna unwind and not think, but I hear you about reaching that point and for me, it happened several years ago. So, while I still have that tendency to be attracted to the hobby side of this, I've learned that my very best shaves and enjoyment usually comes when I've got a consistent setup that doesn't get varied and certainly don't keep products and accessories around that don't get used because, like you, it bothers me. I don't have twenty hair brushes to brush my hair. I could very easily allow myself to buy all sorts of razors, brushes, and shave preps, but once again, I've learned the end result usually isn't happiness. It's funny, but here lately mainly I've found myself buying shave brushes that I WANT, but realizing that I was much happier with my cheap vulfix or kent. I find that they seem to make better lather for me consistently and I enjoy the way they perform. Keep in mind, better lather for my tastes and I end up getting better shaves because my lather is just right. With other brushes, I end up having to work harder to get the right lather and sometimes it's not quite right and the shave isn't as good... therefore the experience isn't as good. So, I can completely relate to what you're saying here and tend to be much happier when I don't get too caught up in the geek end of this.

Best,
Marion

[Bargepole]

I wish I could agree with Murray's comment that

... the endgame is to achieve consistently rewarding shaves with favorite shave goods that have proven themselves best suited to my needs...

but I can't. Not that I mean that Murray speak with forked tongue, but that much as I'd like to believe it's also true for me, it's not.

Like a lot of men here (and I think this is generally a disposition that hits many, many more men than women) it's partly about knowledge. I do it with all sorts of things. Pick on a subject and I just *have* to know *everything* about it. A fairly typical Asperger trait, even though I am not a fairly typical Aspie.

But the endgame isn't even being able to say "I know all about X now, and can move on." If I'm honest (because this doesn't sound very, um, *manly*, I know) it's about feeling *safe*.

It's not the same as consumerism or materialism. It's driven internally, for a start. And it's not about status (or, hell, why would I pick on something like shaving?). It's about the futile search for some kind of security.

The excellent shave and the interesting kit acquired en route -- these are, if you like, side-benefits. They come free inside, like the plastic spaceman in the cornflakes box.

The bad bit is when the obsession is relatively new, one has to acquire everything, and live in terror of NOT finding the ONE TRUE THING that will finally make one safe. The horror of "reformulation" is also part of that process - like a miniature version of Capgras Syndrome, where the sufferer believes that people he loves have been replaced by exact duplicates. (Except in this case the duplicates aren't exact...) My -- let's use the right word, no matter how silly -- *grief* at the knowledge that Trumper Violet had been changed was quite out of proportion with the (pretty well zero) consequences to my life.

So there it is. A deeply embedded neurosis, driven by a lethal mixture of anxiety reinforced by sensory pleasure.

THe *actual* endgame is the dawning realization that X is NOT going to make me safe. I realize I'm not lying awake fretting how to get a Wilkinson Sticky or some American bay rum. I find I'm using the same soap, brush, razor and blade in the morning. I enjoy shaving because I enjoy shaving, not because I'm looking for The Thing That Will Save Me.

And the neurosis itself? Oh, that just moves on. Currently -- prepare to shed tears of pure laughter, men -- it's propelling pencils. Find the right propelling pencil and I will finally be SAFE. (Except there's always another one round the corner, one I can't get or they've stopped making... same old story.)

As neuroses go, it's harmless enough. One day I may take a couple of weeks off work and try to figure out the root causes. But for the time being, it hasn't bankrupted me, it's fairly harmless and has brought me more pleasure than anxiety. But I'm glad TBoner brought up the question. Interesting, confronting one's motivations.

[notthesharpest]

Faber Castell Grip Plus in whatever size you like. Done.

NOW what are you going to do with the rest of your life Michael?

[notthesharpest]

On a more serious note: Michael, that security idea sounds very much like the truth for me. I never thought about it that way before. Thank you.

[TRBeck]

Yes, I agree with David, Michael. Very accurate, and therefore a bit frightening and depressing, though as you point out, there are worse neruoses.

Safe? Well, how's this: I have 50+ sticks of Palmolive.... Now I worry about how I would replace them in the event of a fire.

Yes, like David, I have trouble participating here w/o obsessing. Haven't found a happy medium. I do appreciate the notion of a middle path and think it would be lovely to stumble onto it someday, though I suspect if I do, it will be quite by accident. I've been searching for it with no luck for ages.

Okay, really, now checking this thread is a gateway drug into participation across the board. I am reading everything. Really, my first post in this thread is about why SMF is bad for me, and the thoughtful, intelligent, reflective replies are precisely the reason I talk myself into believing it's not about safety. Next thing I know I'm reading about Rooneys...

Off to list more for sale.

Best,
Tim

[95%]

I really don't see the need for so much angst and self-analysis over a hobby. Any hobby is prone to excess, but this one is completely harmless. For crying out loud, it's not as though we were gambling or sex addicts, or carrying bodies around in our trunks. Every guy here is not only well shaved, but probably more presentable in general than the average Joe.

[drmoss_ca]

Faber Castell Grip Plus in whatever size you like. Done.

NOW what are you going to do with the rest of your life Michael?

He's going to check out the exquisite Yard-O-Led silver pencils (if he likes polishing silver) or the Caran d'Ache Ecridor gold pencil. Both work rather nicely.

Chris

[Harris-tradition]

Very well put Porter, my exact conclusion on this also.

[TRBeck]

I really don't see the need for so much angst and self-analysis over a hobby. Any hobby is prone to excess, but this one is completely harmless. For crying out loud, it's not as though we were gambling or sex addicts, or carrying bodies around in our trunks. Every guy here is not only well shaved, but probably more presentable in general than the average Joe.

Spoken like one who has not ever reached an obsessive-compulsive level w/r/t a hobby...that's when it ceases to be a hobby and becomes a problem. For me, this is not just about shaving. It's about collecting whiskey. Making 30 batches of beer in a year (that's 150 gallons...I dumped most of it, but I just "had" to know everything about how to brew). It's a bigger issue than the shave stuff.

Some guys can handle a hobby, even if it's a bit excessive. For others, the need to have to know everything about it, as Michael said, subsumes all else and one is left sapped of mental energy and not at all enjoying himself. If this doesn't happen to you, I'm happy for you, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

Best,

[95%]

No doubt, Tim. But I'm not worried about you. Somebody said that if we can deal with the small problems of life, the big ones are easy. Having dealt with this shaving OCD, you're going to have smooth sailing for the rest of your long life.

[bernards66]

David, Oh, I've thought of it alright....but had no intention of posting about it....sigh. The issues of knowledge, security, and for me at least, nostalgia, tied to a sense of loss,are all interwoven into this trip. And the end game involved not only a sense of mastery, but also an acceptance that 'the hunt' was futile and driven by inner issues that had nothing to do with actual shaving. At that point, my "bones were settled" and I was able to mainly just enjoy the little daily ritual, and enjoy yakking about it. My last real psychological challenge with all this was the tendency to 'hide out' at SMF since it's a pleasant place, and while here I was neatly avoiding some other areas of my life that were more demanding. But even that aspect is much closer to being in balance today than it was for awhile. Anyway, we may as well stop now as we've lost Tim....he's off looking for Rooneys ( chuckle ).
Regards,
Gordon