Hard Water - Does it hamper your lather?

SharpSpine · Post by **SharpSpine** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:53 pm

I just had a bit of a revelation with a simple phone call to my local water plant. Quite often I hear that we blame water hardness for the inability of a soap to lather. I am guilty of this as well and even skipped on getting a certain soap because of my hard water before. However, lately I've been achieving some great lathers even in my hard water. I won't say that creating my lather is easy as I'm pretty certain from reading how long people typically spend creating their lather that I have to work my soaps longer and harder to get the lather I like. However, I was still getting great results with soaps that notoriously are hard to lather with hard water. Soaps such as MWF, Cade, and modern Williams. These results started to befuddle me to the point where I was questioning if I really did have hard water. So this morning I made a quick call to the water department who kindly gave me the number to the local water plant. I asked the gentleman at the plant if he could share some water hardness information with me and he was very happy to. He gave me 2 different measurements of the average hardness of our local water and here are the results:

1. 180 parts/million also listed as mg/L
2. 11-12 grains

With the following chart we can see what category my water falls into:

Water Hardness Scale

Soft: < 1.0 grains; < 17.1 ppm or mg/L
Slightly Hard: 1.0 - 3.5 grains; 17.1 - 60 ppm
Moderately Hard: 3.5 - 7.0 grains; 60 - 120 ppm
Hard: 7.0 - 10.5 grains; 120 - 180 ppm
Very Hard: < 10.5 grains; < 180 ppm

So it appears that even in the best case scenario that my water is considered hard, and more likely stays in the very hard range.

This was a revelation and validation to me that these soaps which are definitely high quality can be lathered even in hard water. Yes, they may take some extra loading time (I typically load for 60 seconds and have plenty of leftover lather). Yes they may take some extra elbow grease whipping up the lather to the right consistency. Is it worth it? Well that is entirely up to you to decide and I'm sure plenty will say that it isn't when so many other great products lather just by showing them a shaving brush. To me, however, it was kind of a challenge to get anything that I owned to lather. With some practice and patience I'm happy to say that I've succeeded. For me this journey and effort without a doubt has been worth it. MWF is my favorite soap all around. Cade is my favorite scent right now and I can actually shave with it; it doesn't need to be relegated to a bath/shower bar. The jury is out right now on modern Williams as I haven't shaved with it yet, but I've done quite a few test lathers and to be honest it just explodes into lather for me (I'm very thrilled about this since I just invested a little over $6 for 11 pucks of the stuff!).

I hope this encourages you to buy whatever soap interests you and not to get too frustrated if things aren't working for you right away. Everyone's setup is unique so it really comes down to trial and error for each shaver. I certainly hope though that my experience from this journey may be able to assist some others in their lathering education as well.

This post would not be complete without a thank you to all who have helped me along the way with my lathering abilities (unfortunately lathering was not a God-given birth talent to me). I've gleaned so much from so many with their posts so I can't even begin to list people, but thanks to all!

RazoRock · Post by **RazoRock** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:43 pm

If you get a soap/cream with Tetrasodium EDTA, you'll be able to lather quite easily in even the hardest water.

SharpSpine · Post by **SharpSpine** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:15 pm

RazoRock wrote:If you get a soap/cream with Tetrasodium EDTA, you'll be able to lather quite easily in even the hardest water.

Yes, I would definitely agree with you. And while on the subject your RR XXX is one of the soaps I mention in there that can lather just by showing a brush to it, even in my very hard water. Thank you for an outstanding product! I also love the scent!

RazoRock · Post by **RazoRock** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:20 pm

SharpSpine wrote:
RazoRock wrote:If you get a soap/cream with Tetrasodium EDTA, you'll be able to lather quite easily in even the hardest water.
Yes, I would definitely agree with you. And while on the subject your RR XXX is one of the soaps I mention in there that can lather just by showing a brush to it, even in my very hard water. Thank you for an outstanding product! I also love the scent!

Italy has a lot of hard water problems, especially in the smaller towns; that's why you'll see most Italian soaps/cream with EDTA.

Thanks for the compliment.

jww · Post by **jww** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:37 pm

Brilliant -- I just have to try to see whether CATSA and TSA allow this substance to be boarded in carry-on luggage.

ShadowsDad · Post by **ShadowsDad** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:54 pm

RazoRock wrote:[
Italy has a lot of hard water problems, especially in the smaller towns; that's why you'll see most Italian soaps/cream with EDTA.

Of course, the land of marble and Dolomite, all calcium based rock. Makes sense.

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:55 pm

I suffered because of my hard water, stumbled when trying to lather almost any soap. Then I followed the advice I had received and overlooked, and started using distilled water to soak the brush and make the lather. That works well for me now, and isn't too much of an inconvenience, to speak of.

EL Alamein · Post by **EL Alamein** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:53 pm

I am definitely one who complains of hard water problems. And yes, you CAN get a good lather out of a cake of shaving soap in hard water BUT you will use a lot of product to do so (relatively speaking) and as the cake gets worn and ages it can demand even more product because I think the impurities build up in it. In the beginning though it will seem to lather easier.

The real downside for me in such a scenario is that the more product I use the more irritating the lather, it's like there's too much product there and it seems to be a little caustic in this state, at least to my skin. And I've noticed that the lather isn't quite as cushioning nor slick as it is in softer water, even with the edta and that can really add to irritation. Add all that to the rather minor annoyance that you're using up your soap a lot faster and I really appreciate using distilled water. It's perfect lather every time with very little soap and a well practiced technique. With that in mind I won't be going back to tap anytime soon.

Chris

franz · Post by **franz** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:10 am

I went on vacation in a soft water area recently and it disturbed me how quickly and effortlessly the lather was generated.

Over here in Colorado I have moderately hard water, right smack in the middle of that range, so I can't really complain. Lots of product, but no real lathering issues.

I do like some minerality in my tap water. Don't care for the taste otherwise.

ShadowsDad · Post by **ShadowsDad** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:48 pm

Soft water isn't w/o it's problems too. Like using too little product and having the lather break too soon when adding just a small addition of water. The solution is the same as for hard water... more product.

There aren't many lather problems that can't be cured by using more product.

Quarterstick · Post by **Quarterstick** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:19 pm

ShadowsDad wrote:Soft water isn't w/o it's problems too. Like using too little product and having the lather break too soon when adding just a small addition of water. The solution is the same as for hard water... more product.

There aren't many lather problems that can't be cured by using more product.

And how! As discussed in the SMFU, I now have a water softener. This morning I did not have enough product and the lather basically vanished before I got to my second pass. A little more product and all was right with the world.

JarmoP · Post by **JarmoP** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Soft water isn't w/o it's problems too. Like using too little product and having the lather break too soon when adding just a small addition of water.

That is an interesting comment and may be quite true. I have soft water and i stopped rinsing my face between the passes long time ago because it always caused bad lather.