What I don't understand

Thoughts and input on anything related to wet shaving or men's grooming.
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

It has since become the prefered cartridge razor of tens of millions worldwide. Everyone who uses a Mach 3 does so by choice and not by necessity, since various other shavers have always been available. Some people will conclude that the Fusion is their prefered razor and will be happy to pay what is asked for the cartridges. By what authority do you determine what products are necessary?
Very good point, Ren. I'll stand by the quote you offered, but I will concede that I might be (and if personal history is any indicator, I am) wrong about this particular event. It may be that Gillette really did try to develop a better shaving system, and that they really believe they are doing a service for men and women everywhere. I apologise, fully, not only to all you fine folks, but to the folks at Gillette for judging this action too hastily. I've been reading all these opinions of others that the Fusion is not an improvement, and that Gillette's "highly expensive research" was just PR BS.

I was swayed, and I did wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

And I also thank you for bringing this to my attention in this way, so that I could understand where I jumped the tracks. I still say it is wrong to take advantage of people, and I still think huge swaths of marketing and advertising are just that, fancy words for swindling. But I had no right to impugn the folks at Gillette without knowing more, especially since I've never even actually seen a Fusion in person.

Again, thank you. May our Blessed Mother smile upon you for the kindness you have shown me.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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Sam
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Post by Sam »

ok, for the conspiracy theorists that abound:

ford fusion
gillette fusion

sam
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

No need to be so apologetic.
Agree to disagree? I was wrong, and wronged others. I think the need is great and real.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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Troy
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Post by Troy »

Big Ren wrote:As you can tell from my original post, I'm not the biggest fan of Gillette.
Ahh, but Ren, have you tried the Swedish Gillette DE blades? Good stuff, those.

-Troy
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

Don't laugh too hard, Ren. :wink: I've made a few cilice and discipuli for friends in The Work. I'm Cielini myself, but I do have immense respect for St. Josemaria's boys and girls.

Which is why I can't help but laugh when a "right-wing" catholic makes a basic point about morality and some appear to mistake him for a godless commie.

Pax Vobisum!!!

Franklin in Atlanta
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch »

drmoss_ca wrote:Clapham omnibus (how's that for a legal test?)
Very impressive!

But let's take this down to the level of the average joe.

I've used the powered Fusion for a week, and I think I understand it completely now. It is the most comfortable, easy shave I've ever had. It doesn't stand up to a Fetaher str8, but what does? It's a very good shave. I've tried all the systems as they came out and this is the first one that eally works all around. And it requires no skill as long as you don't bear down on it. So, the average guy can now buy a razor, use it out of the package and get a comfortable, excellent shave.

The only problem is the cost. At $3.50 a cartridge for about a week of shaves, it's nearly $200 a year. Not a fortune, but high for the average Joe's budget. Apparenly, Gillette thinks they'll sell it at that price. I hate that it's as good as it is.
Joe
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Sam
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Post by Sam »

joe, i take the other view. i dont mind that it is good, i am glad that most average joes can not get better shaves. and yes, it is going to come at a price. however, at some point, i think guys are gonna come around and realize they can get better shaves or more pleasant ones with the "old" way. there aint no way i am gonna go back to edge gel, not with the castle forbes creams and the trumpers and taylors and then the new stuff colleen and sue are whipping up.

sure the fusion and canned gels can be idiot proof, but i still see a lot of guys with irritation and shadows and poor shaves with the mach 3 and edge gel. so for them, i am glad the fusion works better.

sam
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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch »

FrancisDeSales wrote:If you have some sort of learning disability, I'll try to explain things more simply in the future.

But yeah, this is ALL about morals.

I just expressed suprise that, of all the folks on this forum, no one felt the least bit uncomfortable with what has happened with this thing.

People so concerned with their rights that they can't even produce replacement numbers in subsequent generations don't really deserve to keep a culture anyway.

As for your "best system ever" boasts, you might be right, if materialism were the lens we view the world through. But I'd say the economic system of 13th century Europe was far better. Or at least the average peasant was far more free than your average wage-slave in a cubicle.

If you work hard, and answered yes to LESS THAN SEVEN, Then you are
A WAGE-SLAVE. You may call yourself politically free, but you are economically enslaved as a wage-earner to a government or corporate body. Freedom-wise, you are placed BELOW the average 13-century peasant, who possessed all the above!
I don't know what your problem is, but Brett was obviously too nice to you. Obviously you have some sort of problem, but that's yours not ours. Take your arrogant superior attitude and your your obvious social agenda and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. The guys here are far too intelligent to buy any of it or to stomach you.

You're obviously one of the great minds of the 13th century, but please don't impose it on us.
Joe
cmoore
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Post by cmoore »

This thread should really be closed. Petty name calling is unbecoming to this forum.
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

That's a hoot, considering that Brett and I have long since privately come to an agreement that we both were too hotheaded in our correspondence with one another, with apologies both ways.

It is never good to assume that what you've seen publically is all there is. Even worse when you cherrypick your quotes, avoiding those which contradict your point.

I concur, close this thread so johnny-come-latelies need not destroy the good will of the group.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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Brett G
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Post by Brett G »

Though I completely disagreed with Franklin's post, I felt bad about inflamming the situation the way that I did. I'm an experienced forum member who should know better. I have since apologized to Franklin, not for taking issue with his words, but for the quasi-personal attack that I launched on him. This is a shaving forum and political statements have zero or limited value here; however, allowing them to turn into ugly exchanges has even less value.

And that's all I have to say about that.
Brett
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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch »

FrancisDeSales wrote:It may be that Gillette really did try to develop a better shaving system, and that they really believe they are doing a service for men and women everywhere. I apologise, fully, not only to all you fine folks, but to the folks at Gillette for judging this action too hastily. I've been reading all these opinions of others that the Fusion is not an improvement, and that Gillette's "highly expensive research" was just PR BS.

I was swayed, and I did wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I get it. You're really a Gillette plant. And now that you've found the error of your ways, so should we.

As much as I believe that the Fusion is a fine system (the first one that really works) and a good shaving solution for the guy who doesn't want to learn skills, I am not a Gillette booster, just the opposite. Few people here have ranted agaist Gillette more than me.

So, they have a worthy but very expensive product. The market made up of all those weak minded people you talk about will decide whether it's worth the money to them. And your snobbery and arrogance won't matter an iota.

It's a relief to me that all those weak minded people are smart enough not to be taken in by the likes of you and properly relegate you to whatever academic hell hole you crawled out of.
Joe
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

Joe,

I am not the one who first posited that the general public was weak minded. I was responding to a comment made by another.

But since you only want to read what you want to read, further discourse is futile.

Sure, I'm a gillette plant. I'm a Harvard Grad. I'm a godless communist. I head the superscret Opus Dei plot to blow up the Capitol Building and the ACLU headquarters. If you ever had a dog that went missing, I stole him. I put razorblades in candy just to discredit DE users. I expose myself to innocent little old ladies in public parks. I pick my teeth in public, as well as my ears. I have terrible personal hygiene, leprosy and gingivitis. I once propositioned Hillary Clinton in a drunken stupor. I shot that priest in Turkey, the last Pope, Reagan, MLKjr and Kennedy, all at once using a time machine I stole from the Scientologists. I only use shaving soaps made from the fat of butchered kindergartners. I once spent two years salary for a plate of kimodo dragon at a fundraiser held by some guy named Abramoff. I started the Crimean War, helped arm Hitler, gave Stalin advice on agriculture programs and was an uncredited ghostwriter in Mao's "Little Red Book". I've never clubbed a baby seal for its skin; I do it just got the sheer joy of the act itself.

Did I leave anything out? Feel free to add it now, please.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

Oh, AND I rip those little tags off of every mattress and pillow I can find, as well as strowing raw rice wherever birds congregate, just to watch them splatter.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch »

Sam wrote:joe, i take the other view. i dont mind that it is good, i am glad that most average joes can not get better shaves. and yes, it is going to come at a price. however, at some point, i think guys are gonna come around and realize they can get better shaves or more pleasant ones with the "old" way. there aint no way i am gonna go back to edge gel, not with the castle forbes creams and the trumpers and taylors and then the new stuff colleen and sue are whipping up.

sure the fusion and canned gels can be idiot proof, but i still see a lot of guys with irritation and shadows and poor shaves with the mach 3 and edge gel. so for them, i am glad the fusion works better.

sam
Nobody says you have to use the Fusion with gel, although I tried it that way first. It actually worked better with better products, unlike the M3P.

The Futur has it over every razor in comfort. You don't feel anything being cut and you're surprized when you see your face was shaved. I've tried everything and nothing comes close in comfort. As for the quality of the shave, I'll put it up against a DE (not with Feather or Swedish Gillette blades). The untrained shaver will do much better with it and a trained DE shaver could do just as well.

I have a permanent skin condition that flares up occasionally. Then I have trouble shaving and I fall back to a DE (no str8s) and canned Noxema shave cream (the safest). I wouldn't hesitate to use the Fusion, and I will actually try it.
Joe
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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch »

Big Ren wrote:Joe,

In fairness to Franklin (FrancisdeSales), he did apologize after being challenged by both Brett and myself. I don't see the point in opening up old wounds at this point. Why can't we just leave it at Pax Vobiscum?
Ren you're a prince.

I admit I responded to the post as soon as I read it, but that apology drips with sarcasm. I didn't really take it seriously. The fact that you accept it is a tribute to you as a gentleman.
Joe
honkdonker
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Post by honkdonker »

Joe Lerch wrote:
FrancisDeSales wrote:It may be that Gillette really did try to develop a better shaving system, and that they really believe they are doing a service for men and women everywhere. I apologise, fully, not only to all you fine folks, but to the folks at Gillette for judging this action too hastily. I've been reading all these opinions of others that the Fusion is not an improvement, and that Gillette's "highly expensive research" was just PR BS.

I was swayed, and I did wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I get it. You're really a Gillette plant. And now that you've found the error of your ways, so should we.

As much as I believe that the Fusion is a fine system (the first one that really works) and a good shaving solution for the guy who doesn't want to learn skills, I am not a Gillette booster, just the opposite. Few people here have ranted agaist Gillette more than me.

So, they have a worthy but very expensive product. The market made up of all those weak minded people you talk about will decide whether it's worth the money to them. And your snobbery and arrogance won't matter an iota.

It's a relief to me that all those weak minded people are smart enough not to be taken in by the likes of you and properly relegate you to whatever academic hell hole you crawled out of.
As usual, Mr. Anger and Insult is on a rampage. Am I the only one who has found his behavior despicable, and am I the only one who wants him banned from this site?

What say ye, moderators? Please do something, as by allowing this hateful man, you make this board look like crap. No offence, of course.

Let's see the hate that this post brings. Some are all for free speech, except for when I call them on their own.
honkdonker
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Re: What I don't understand

Post by honkdonker »

MAB wrote:I need someone with a business background to explain the Fusion to me.

I would say that 75-80% of the guys I know use a Mach 3 and are probably ok with it. Most of the others use an electric. Heck, even the guy who wears a beard uses the Mach 3 to shave his neck. In addition, I hear a lot of complaints about the cost of Mach 3 cartridges.

I'm sure their market research indicated something similar to this. Does Gillette really want to risk alienating all of their customers who already use the Mach 3? Isn't the release of the Fusion a pretty big risk? I doubt many of the guys I know will buy the Fusion; I don't think too many even traded up to the Mach 3 Power.

Why couldn't Gillette have waited awhile before releasing the Fusion? Is the Schick Quattro really a huge threat? Although this is anecdotal, I honestly don't know anybody who has ever used the Quattro.
MAB, it is all about trying to grow the business. Ask Warren Buffett. He has been a huge fan of Gillette for many years, and for good reason.

Millions of men get great shaves from Mach3, and every other shaver Gillette put out. Some have rejected modern Gillette items due to comfort, cost, nostalgia, or whatever; that does not mean that the new items they develop are crap, at least not to everyone.

As a publicly held company, the company is in a constant quest to maximize returns; thus, new and varied products.

Hope this helps.
FrancisDeSales
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Post by FrancisDeSales »

that apology drips with sarcasm. I didn't really take it seriously.
Sorry, Joe, but that apology was intended as absolutely sincere. It says something about Big Ren that he recognised that I was being sincere, and accepted my apology like a man.

As for honkerdonker's calls that you be banned. I disagree. I like watching an intemperate man run off at the mouth as much as the next guy. I say let you stay, as long as you aren't peeing in the potted palms.
"The Catholic Church is like a thick steak, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar."
[GK Chesterton].
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javyn
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Post by javyn »

I think I know what the next topic on Shavebong is going to be :(
John
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