New Gillette cartridge razor

Thoughts and input on anything related to wet shaving or men's grooming.
CMur12
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by CMur12 »

I'm not a fan of cartridge razors for my own personal use - and they don't work for everyone, but I can understand their advantages for the majority of shavers. They are designed so that a new shaver can get good results without having to develop advanced technique. I see this as very similar to driving a car with an automatic transmission, which could be said to handicap the driver's development of proper shifting technique. I would guess that the majority of our members on this forum drive cars with automatic transmissions, which in my mind is equivalent to shaving with the new ball-Fusion. I still haven't driven an automatic transmission that I like, so my Honda Accord has a stick shift and I enjoy applying advanced shifting technique. 8)

- Murray
EL Alamein
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by EL Alamein »

Porter, Yeah, I probably used a bad metaphor. Perhaps Murray's is a better one. My apologies.

Chris
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by 95% »

Murray, I'm tempted to point out that we have also lost the advanced horse-and-buggy driving techniques of our great-grandparents: how much buggy whip to apply, etc. But I won't. :)

I'm older than you, I believe (71), so I well understand the attraction of the straight shift transmission. I resisted automatics until I bought a 1993 Accord. I've never looked back, and now I wouldn't own a stick shift. Modern automatics, like my 2013 Toyota Highlander, also provide for advanced shifting techniques, and can do most anything as well as a stick.

To your point, though: drivers who never experienced a manual transmission often have a poor understanding of how a transmission works. The most tragic examples appeared a few years ago during the Toyota recalls on stuck accelerator pedals. Fatal accidents occurred which could have been prevented, if only the driver had shifted into neutral. Younger people today don't have a clue what the neutral gear on their car is for.
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harper
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by harper »

Stirling Moss once told me face to face that "having anything but an automatic in a city car is silly" and surely anyone who won the Mille Miglia in a stick-shift Mercedes should know the benefits of one type of transmission over another. I'm sure I drove well over a million miles with stick shift transmissions but that was long before automatics were pretty much ubiquitous in automobiles and I wouldn't have a car today without an automatic. When I was driving a lot in Europe I would drive stick shifts because some of the roads are such that a stick shift is useful although not essential ... but in North America I don't see any benefits to manual shifting. And if you drive freeways as I did when I was working then a stick shift was hell.

I can shave ... and sometimes do ... with my trusty Future but the shaves are no better ... often not quite as good ... as with a Power Fusion. One of the reasons cartridge razors have been so successful and revolutionized shaving, especially in North America, is because they make most novices shave like experts. I see nothing wrong with that and to posit that one kind of razor is superior to another because it requires learning a technique is pretentious I think. If one type of razor gives you a better shave and requires learning a technique then go for it. But, if it doesn't why bother. Of course, if you don't bother you never learn the technique so you never really know.
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diggity
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by diggity »

YMMV and all that. I have had a helluva time getting the double edge razor down pat, no matter what blades/razors, etc I used. I found that the old Gillette swedes worked best for me in a UK Wilkinson Sticky, but as you know, the Swedes are no longer and they were hard as hell to find (and then you and to pay the piper). The Gillette Trac II blades for me work great - no ingrown hairs, no weepers...just a clean and really nice shave. For me, it has made shaving more enjoyable. For the next guy, he might like a long handled Gillette DE with a Wilkinson blade...it all is about doing what works best for you and what you enjoy!
Nathan
bernards66
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by bernards66 »

Bob, So you chatted with Stirling Moss about auto transmissions did you?...sigh...is there anyone interesting that you HAVEN'T chatted with?....no...probably not...sigh again... . FWIW I agree with Stirling regarding stick shifts for driving in populated regions. Around 1990 I paid $2000 more ( that I didn't really have to spend mind you ) because I insisted that the dealership get me the model I wanted with an automatic transmission as I was so done with driving manual transmission cars in Tampa traffic. And I also agree and understand the point that cartridges have their appeal because the novice can get a good shave without having to learn much of anything and in America particularly that sells. And granted, there is not anything necessarily wrong with that. But I also remain convinced that multi-blade cartridges are problematic for more than just a few men in terms of their tendency to create razor bumps and other skin problems. I'll never forget the ravaged neck of that AoS rep who recoiled at the very suggestion he might have less problems if he used a DE razor when it couldn't have been clearer that the skin issues he obviously had were a result of the Mach III he used daily. I personally know several guys who refuse to shave daily justifying their scruffyness by saying that 'my skin can't take daily shaving' and they all use multi-blades when they do shave. By all means we should all use what works for us and what we enjoying using as was said above but if there is a bias toward more 'old fashioned' type razors on this forum it is at least partially because these shave forums were started mostly by gents interested in more traditional shaving and shaving products. Quite a few were refugees of years of dissatisfying shaves with mass marketed products.
Regards,
Gordon
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jww
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by jww »

CMur12 wrote:... I still haven't driven an automatic transmission that I like, so my Honda Accord has a stick shift and I enjoy applying advanced shifting technique. 8)
...
+1

Great analogy -- manual vs auto --- DE vs cartridge.
Wendell

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harper
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by harper »

Gordon, well, to start, I haven't chatted with you face to face and that is my loss I'm sure. I met Moss at the Frankfurt Auto Show when I was doing some work for Mercedes. Mercedes was introducing their new S-class (this was years ago) with a new transmission they said would change gears as fast as a Grand Prix car and they had about 40 engineers on hand to answer any possible automobile questions. I chatted with Moss over coffee in a special exhibitors lounge and asked, among other matters, what he thought about automatics versus manuals and you know the answer.

Personally, and this extends to most of my shaving habits, I am game for trying new razors and/or blades and if they works better and the price compares with what I am using then I am happy with the product. If it doesn't then I stay with what I have or try something else. I can always go back to my tried and true so I lose nothing but a little money trying new stuff. My new Power Fusion Flex Ball cost $10 with one blade and if it didn't work which it does, it was no great loss.

I think we should all keep in mind that the DE razors that so many people on SMF prize today were once mass market products but fell by the wayside as new and often better or more effective products came on the market, mainly TRAC11 which revolutionized shaving. At the same time, the single biggest problem the vast majority of razor and blade makers have (aside from the increasing number of men wearing beards and newly springing up competitors like Harrys which offer razors and blades much like others on the market but sell them directly and not through retail outlets) today is that almost all of the major products are so good that it is difficult to create new products that markedly improve on existing ones ... for example, how much sharper can a blade be and still be practicable for most users. Also, there is the positioning of the new product in the market. I will never know ... nor will any of us likely ... whether the original TRAC11 razor really needed two blades (hysteresis theory or not) to shave as well as it did for the almost all shavers. Perhaps a single blade would have been as effective but it certainly would not have been unique enough to capture the attention that twin blades did. I have doubts that five blade are necessary but since they get the job done very effectively for me most of the time it doesn't matter except for price and I cut that via Costco. Another thing to keep in mind, is that much of this world is a capitalist world and corporations are not charities. Gillette, Shick, all the others are out to make money and most of them find that they are most successful when they bring out new products that work. Periodically a dog gets through (the Techmatic in my mind was just awful and died a merciful and quick death) but the marketplace seems to more or less determine whether products are good or not. As is well known in marketing, good advertising will get a lot of people to try a new product but if it is not good even great advertising will not get them to buy it a second time. This is especially true for personal care products and razors and blades are very personal.

If cartridge razors were outlawed I could happily go back to daily use of the Future (I use it periodically) but I would find my life just a bit, a very tiny bit, more complicated. If I had the problems that you and some others report with cartridge razors then I would never use one. Now, if I had to give up my Trumper shave cream ... or any of the other excellent high-end Brit creams, I would find my life a lot less pleasant even though in some ways the canned stuff is superior (it has more emollients) and produces great lather. I would find going back to shave pucks even more of a hassle.

I agree with you that this forum has a bias for DE razors and blades which is why I was surprised when so many members "came out" so to speak and admitted they used cartridge razors. I would have thought the number of cartridge users on this forum would have been much lower that it appears to be.

One of the things I admire most about the French is that by and large they don't much care what you do in your personal life as long as it doesn't impact others. I feel that way about DE shaving and cartridge shaving. I think virtually all of the members of SMF do the same.

Cheers

Bob
merkri
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by merkri »

I use DEs most of the time, but have to use cartridges occasionally because of travel or other miscellaneous reasons.

This is what I've concluded:

I get better shaves with a DE than with a cartridge, but they're riskier and take more time. Cartridges are really close in terms of the quality of the shave they provide, though.

A dull DE blade just makes things slower going, and takes longer, and doesn't get as close of a shave. A dull cartridge, though, pulls my beard and causes massive irritation. Because there's always a dud blade or cartridge, it always ends up being an issue eventually.

DE blades last longer and have a smoother decay curve. This issue also intersects with how blades and cartridges perform when they're dull.

I hate the gel strips on cartridges. I swear they harbor bacteria and increase inflammation and irritation. I only came to this conclusion very gradually after wetshaving with DEs, and noticed that washing with soap after cartridge shaving (as opposed to just rinsing) decreases irritation a lot (although not completely). I wish they'd make cartridges without the gel strips. If I could find cartridges of consistent quality without the gel strips I might give them a more sustained try again.
pausted
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by pausted »

I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I'm 74 years old so I have been shaving for a long time. I guess my technique is pretty well established at this point. I get the best shave with a DE razor and don't remember how long it has been since I've had a nick or a weeper. Over the past few weeks I have been experimenting with some cartridge razors again mainly out of simple curiosity. I've used three different twin blade cartridges, one three blade and one four blade. None of these cause me any discomfort such as ingrown hairs or bumps so that is not an issue for me. They simply don't give me as good a shave. I should point out that I do the same routine with both DE and cartridge: pass 1 WTG and pass 2 XTG on jawbones and neck. Additionally, I don't find any major differences in the time or effort it takes for the shave. I will continue to use cartridges from time to time because I like variety and they are great for travel, but long term, I will remain mainly a DE guy. YMMV.

Best to all.
Best regards,

Basil
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by brothers »

I'm having a blast playing around with the cartridges. Much obliged to you fellows who encourage/ignore/opine/etc. That's what makes SMF SMF. :D
Gary

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bernards66
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Re: New Gillette cartridge razor

Post by bernards66 »

Basil, That has been largely my experience as well ( other than that I DO get razor bumps etc. from multi-blades ). That is; the shave is generally not as good for me with the cartridges and I've always had to do the same number of passes in the same manner regardless of the razor if I want the kind of shave that I prefer. I never found the cartridges to take less time, fewer passes, etc. I also agree with the above in regard to longevity and the business about a less radical decay curve and the consequences being less severe with a DE as opposed to the multi-blade cartridges. Bob is, of course, right in that the Gillette DEs and Schick Injectors were the 'mass market' razors of their day but by the time these forums started in the early 2000s they had become 'vintage' pieces and many of the gents who gravitated to the early shave forums did so because they were looking for an alternative to the multi-blade cartridges and canned goo that they'd been using and were not happy with.
Regards,
Gordon
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