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Oh no

Postby churchilllafemme » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:55 pm

We already were not eating any red meat, but now due to the influence of our daughter (who basically eats just raw foods), my wife has decided to go vegan in our diet. I'm holding out for being able to eat chicken and fish occasionally, but I think my days of eating any kind of meat are numbered.
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Re: Oh no

Postby pausted » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:58 pm

John, unless you already know how, you better learn to cook. :D
Best regards,

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Re: Oh no

Postby brothers » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:24 pm

John, I had a coworker who decided to go vegan a few years back, and she stuck to it. It worked. Let us know how it works out for you. It can't hurt.
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Re: Oh no

Postby ShadowsDad » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:44 pm

John, I know of 3 ladies who have been on a raw diet for years. One has lost most of her teeth from malnutrition and these ladies "knew" how to do it. It's a very bad idea. I know of no one who is on a vegan diet and has done well with it long term. Another gent is off of it now and trying to regain his health due to doctors orders. Any long term vegan, merely to look at them, tells one that they're in poor health. The skin and hair shows it. The gent I mentioned looked like death, the ladies not much better. But short term one can get away with it.

Yeah, I'd learn how to cook or find a good non-vegan restaurant that I could go to once a day.
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Re: Oh no

Postby drmoss_ca » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:31 am

A very little science knowledge tells you that cooking food is one of the factors that led to the success of our species. By cooking food we can obtain more nutrition from a far wider range of foods, supporting the spread of early mankind into marginal areas. I need a T-shirt that I can offend people with that says "Raw foods are for sissies who can't cook!"

My wife became a vegetarian at the age of 14, probably for the usual squeamish adolescent girl reasons, but she has stuck to it ever since. I generally only cook meat if she's not around partly to respect her feelings, but also to avoid the complexity of cooking two things with two sets of implements and 'ne'er the twain shall meet.' The one banned food is black pudding because of the smell. Perhaps it is just as well that it cannot be found in these parts - I would kill for some (well, kill a pig, anyway.)

C.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
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Re: Oh no

Postby Rufus » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:54 am

I don't understand some people's aversion to eating animals without a valid medical reason. We evolved as omnivores and I intend to be a good one. Perhaps my lack of understanding comes from having attended boarding school for most of my schooling and a brief stint in the army. In both instances you ate what was put in front of you (good, bad or indifferent) since there was nothing else to eat. I quickly developed an appreciation for foods of all kind and a distain for picking or fussy eaters.
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Re: Oh no

Postby ShadowsDad » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:40 am

Rufus, to support your post, anthropologists have suggested that eating meat, more specifically marrow, from animals that others animal killed is partially responsible for our rise above being apes. It was an available and very large source of calories inside the bones that many carnivores couldn't get at. But with primitive tools early man, or what would be early man, was able to get at it. At least that was a theory that I heard years ago. That's all I remember about it.

Another study I saw compared the energy required to digest raw food vs cooked food. The energy demand for digestion was significantly higher for the raw food.

John, one possible way to get better nutrition from raw food is to get a juicer and make use of it. We don't chew veggies efficiently enough to extract the nutrients we need. But a juicer can do what we can't. We have a Green Power and it's a very good juicer. The spent pulp that comes out of the end isn't dry, but is merely damp. Another benefit of juicing is that some veg'; juice actually tastes very good; carrot juice for instance is almost like a thin milk shake being sweet and rich tasting. But be careful of green juices they are very potent, small quantities only of the green. :-) The heat from watercress passes right through the body and is urinated out. It's just as hot as it exits the body as when it went in, maybe even hotter. You can figure out how I know, just by guessing. I thought I was dying. I've never had VD but I would imagine that's what it feels like.
Brian

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Re: Oh no

Postby brothers » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:41 am

A wise man once said "give no thought to what you eat or drink". Over the years I've noticed that I am getting very bored with having to eat all the time. Thankfully I still like cherry pie, whisky, bacon, soup, ice cream sundaes, baked potatoes, tomatoes, fresh grapes, and coffee.
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Re: Oh no

Postby drmoss_ca » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:16 pm

brothers wrote:A wise man once said "give no thought to what you eat or drink". Over the years I've noticed that I am getting very bored with having to eat all the time. Thankfully I still like cherry pie, whisky, bacon, soup, ice cream sundaes, baked potatoes, tomatoes, fresh grapes, and coffee.


Seems to me that you have two options:

1. Avoid boredom by not eating

2. Eat only cherry pie, whisky, bacon, soup, ice cream sundaes, baked potatoes, tomatoes, fresh grapes, and coffee.

Should you choose the latter, I assume you won't mind awfully if we start sweepstake on which nutritional deficiency is mentioned on the death certificate? Don't worry - I'm joking as I can't actually see a fatal problem with that combination, as long as you get the proportions right. If you minimise or remove the whisky, ice cream sundaes and cherry pie, you still can survive.

I know of only one single foodstuff that man can live upon alone. The problem is that in order to survive upon it and get enough of the minor nutrients you will get far too much of those that are abundantly present. Yes - here's the big reveal - you may live upon potatoes. You have to eat the skins, and you will be way too fat from excess carbs, but everything is there. There was a good reason why the Irish only left their homeland after the 1840's famine: much as they were dreadfully mistreated (Disraeli: "a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world.") they could survive in place as long as the potato came through for them. I can't see any persuasive reasons as to why anyone ought to emulate that experience. Beans, corn and rice is very defensible if you want to simplify your diet, but still prone to the boredom issue. Best dietary advice, eat what you can as you find it, as that way you get the best variety, making a deficiency of any micronutrient less likely. Even better, for longevity: eat food, not too much, mostly plants. There is perfectly good and valuable dietary advice out there without being weird. Nonetheless, it still annoys me that I had to discover the hard way that learning to cook and bake everything from scratch did not result in the healthiest diet - far from it! Not fair! But truth is truth and cannot be argued with. The current state of affairs for a diet that won't just avoid death in the short term, but maximise lifespan goes:

1. Avoid sugar as best you can (and remember, fruits are a sugary treat).
2. Fats are OK as long as they naturally occur in what you were about to eat anyway.
3. Protein - hell, yeah, but remember it's expensive and you only need the equivalent of one egg a day after you stop growing.
4. Eat your vegetables. Like it or not, they contain things you need. Plus constipation ain't fun.
5. In the light of all the above, keep in mind it is normal to feel hungry. That's what stops you getting fat.
6. Find the pleasures in your life from somewhere other than stuffing your stomach.
7. Sucks, doesn't it? There we are, no law that says it doesn't have to suck.
8. Grow up and get used to it.

C.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
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Re: Oh no

Postby CMur12 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:13 pm

I was hoping you would weigh in on this one, Chris, and you didn't disappoint.

- Murray
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Re: Oh no

Postby Rufus » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:27 pm

CMur12 wrote:I was hoping you would weigh in on this one, Chris, and you didn't disappoint.

- Murray

+1. The good doctor has nailed it. What's alarming is that in medical school near zilch is taught about nutrition.
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Re: Oh no

Postby brothers » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:43 pm

The sage advice posted here by Chris is not taught in school, and can't be found in a book. Thanks Doc! :)
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Re: Oh no

Postby fallingwickets » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:24 am

My partner decided to go on a diet regimen called whole 360 http://dailyburn.com/life/health/whole-30-diet-book/

Im no skinny svelte (5.11 230lbs) person, but all of my markers are better than decent. I try avoid eating any foods made in a factory ex hellman's mayo and hp sauce :lol: So, right off the bat, being me, I point out that A. no diet works and B. the premise of the whole 360 is bs For example, they say absolutely no sugar (ex fruit), but in the vinegar approval list they're big on balsamic!! I point out that if they cant even get the vinegar right (balsamic has tons of sugar.....unless its the real stuff and that's $100's) what are they getting wrong with everything else? But, I might as well be talking to a wall and so it goes on, and out of respect I 'eat' along....ghee instead of butter, cauliflower instead of rice etc etc.

Old saying from back home, translated: what doesnt make you fat, makes you dead!! LOL

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Re: Oh no

Postby Squire » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:24 pm

Oh good Lord. My forebears, who's genes I inherited, lived into their 90s on a diet that would make these modern diet cultists blanch.
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Re: Oh no

Postby Rufus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:47 am

My two oldest grandchildren (17 & 13) have decided to go vegan after watching a film at school about slaughtering animals or something to that effect. I think (hope) they'll grow out of it before they damage themselves. What's wrong with a well-balanced diet of veggies, meat fish, fruit and nuts? Just stay away from added sugar and processed foods. My mother lived to be 91 and my aunt, her sister, lived to be 94. Their favourite Sunday dinner was rare roast beef, preferably standing rib, piles of veggies, Yorkies and gravy. Their preferred pre-dinner drink was a dry gin martini. Sounds like a winning combo to me, provided it's done in moderation.
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Re: Oh no

Postby brothers » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:53 am

I'm thinking of googling to find out who's still youthful after living for hundreds of years so I can eat whatever they ate and live forever. --- Oh, there aren't any. --- I guess that means we're all going to pass away no matter what we eat or don't eat. I think there was a very wise leader who once stated something like "give no thought to what you will eat or drink". Imagine that!

Of course, our real life dietary trials and tribulations have little to do with passing away, it's all about looking just like the models and celebrities that strut about on the stage for the camera, and our silly illusions of social popularity driven by vanity and material possessions. As I grow older, I have noticed that once we get up into years everyone begins to look alike. I once saw a couple of elderly folks staying at the same hotel. At a distance and out of focus, they may have appeared to be in their 50's, but up close and personal, they looked ridiculous and very sad. Their wigs alone must have cost many hundreds of dollars. Black on him and red on her. Gag!

Living in moderation and eating to manage our health as we get old and eventually run out of time makes complete sense. Why not be prudent and get all the mileage out of our bodies while we can?
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Re: Oh no

Postby Squire » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:11 am

Living long doesn't necessarily mean living well.
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Re: Oh no

Postby Rufus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:55 pm

Squire wrote:Living long doesn't necessarily mean living well.

Yup, quality beats quantity in my book.
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Re: Oh no

Postby CMur12 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:54 pm

I must say that I strongly believe that diet has a tremendous impact on health, and a lot of recent research that I have read about appears to back that up.

- Murray
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Re: Oh no

Postby Gene » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:54 pm

My wife went as vegan as she could one year ago. She lost a nice bit of weight, and her cholesterol numbers improved but about 50 points.

Her doctor is a huge advocate for the lifestyle - and on her recommendation we watched a documentary called "Forks over Knives". It's free to watch on Netflix, and I actually recommend it to people - it is an interesting show. Being vegan isn't the same as going raw, BTW. Lots of things to cook - lentils and such.

Because I travel so much I only sideswipe the lifestyle - but it does seem that I feel better when I am mostly on it than when I am not. To each his own, I guess.

I thought the cancer discussions on that show were fascinating.
Gene

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