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Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:07 pm
by brothers
drmoss_ca wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:03 am
I love regional accents, and was born in a place that gave me a childhood accent that my northern parents and brother laughed at. I sounded like a yokel from Far From The Madding Crowd, and still can. I decry the loss of regional accents that are being wiped out by the dominance of Estuary English. A couple of weeks ago I was able to compare a sixty year old Sussex man with a couple of youngsters. You'd never guess they came from the same place. It's the coming uniformity I don't like. Ideally, we would have a variety of local accents, dialects and vocabularies . . . .
I hope I never forget as a small child sitting quietly in the corner at my grandparents' house (surrounded by farmland 100 miles from nowhere in the middle of the plains). Listening in awe to the colloquialisms and phrases that I am certain they heard spoken by their ancestors, and they from theirs for three hundred years since those folks had set sail from England/Ireland/Scotland/etc. and places unknown. I hope and pray I never forget the sound of their voices and their spoken words. Nowadays we find ourselves restricted, judged, bullied, and scorned by the pea-brains who think they have a license to shame. I am so glad there are some wonderful pieces of literature that have captured much of what used to pass for amusing, colorful and expressive communication.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:15 pm
by Rufus
CMur12 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:56 pm
Bryan, I'll accept your correction on British English. "English English," though more accurate, sounds awkward, and yet it is sometimes necessary. I don't think the word "English" by itself is automatically understood by the generality of English speakers to mean "English as spoken in England."

I have lived in Brazil and in Portugal, and I speak Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese Portuguese (or perhaps "Continental Portuguese"), and this terminology, as inelegant as it may be, has been necessary for clarity.

In Portuguese, I would say "Portuguese of Brazil," "Brazilian Portuguese," or even just "Brazilian" (not exactly standard, but often used to make a point), and "Portuguese of Portugal."

- Murray
Murray, I get on this rant from time-to-time, but it’s really more tongue in cheek than correcting someone. What a coincidence, my first two languages were English and Brazilian Portuguese. When I was a very young lad we lived in Rio de Janeiro and I started school there. At home I spoke English with my parents but Portuguese with the servants. At school it was all English, but after school with my Brazilian friends it was all Portuguese. I’ve forgotten almost all of my Brazilian as the last time I used it was in the early 1960s when we were in Portuguese East Africa. Interestingly, both my parents could still speak passable Brazilian Portuguese up to their deaths. I was in Portugal two years ago, but became very tongue tied when it came to the language and hid behind English sadly.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:21 pm
by slackskin
@Dr Moss - Pardon my sense of humor, but would a MP properly speak RP?

This is very interesting.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:13 am
by fallingwickets
when we were in Portuguese East Africa.
how the world turns....we were practically neighbours at some point :D :D

clive

p.s. my parents went to lm often...the stories make it sound like a mini paradise

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:40 am
by Rufus
fallingwickets wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:13 am
when we were in Portuguese East Africa.
how the world turns....we were practically neighbours at some point :D :D

clive

p.s. my parents went to lm often...the stories make it sound like a mini paradise
Clive, a small world indeed. We spent many a great holiday at Hotel Polana in LM; however, I don’t think they served teacake or lardy cake, but they did have a killer peri peri prawn dish. We’d also go to Beira for hols. At the time my favourite radio station was LM Radio.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:00 am
by drmoss_ca
slackskin wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:21 pm
@Dr Moss - Pardon my sense of humor, but would a MP properly speak RP?

This is very interesting.
I'll take it seriously. RP was really a twentieth century invention. Read Trollope's Palliser novels if you want to know how Victorian MPs spoke. Briefly in the first part of the century, all would have spoken RP, or tried to do so. The Labour Party started having electoral success in the 1920's, and it has been a badge of class solidarity with them to come to Westminster and speak in outrageous accents. Such a shibboleth, in fact, that some of the more facetious of Corbyn's Clowns who happen not to have an accent identifiable with a depressed area of the country or an oppressed immigrant group adopt one of their own. And there's Dianne, who was unsatisfied with London Jamaican English, and adopted the distinctive speech of the mentally handicapped community as well.

Now that parliament is televised, you can see and hear exactly how members speak. Let's take Moggie's first outing as Leader of the House as an example:



I have to say the wit, erudition and humour on display puts the pitiful displays of the Canadian Commons to shame.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:19 am
by Rufus
That’s a great clip Chris. Reese-Mogg’s accent is something else; in the colonies (not referring to Canada) we’d call someone with such an accent a TNT: Toffee Nosed Twit. Nevertheless, he is very erudite, articulate and witty. I also like the ‘antics’ of the Speaker, who’s good for a chuckle or two. There is no one in the Canadian House of Commons who can match either man when it comes to public speaking.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:33 pm
by slackskin
drmoss_ca wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:00 am
Now that parliament is televised, you can see and hear exactly how members speak.
@Dr Moss - Is parliament televised in Northern California? I would be interested to watch. Thank you.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:02 pm
by drmoss_ca
Is 'Northern California' a mocking, but understandable, name for Canada? If so, the answer is yes.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:17 pm
by CMur12
drmoss_ca wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:02 pm
Is 'Northern California' a mocking, but understandable, name for Canada? If so, the answer is yes.
Oh, that was good!

- Murray

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:23 pm
by CMur12
Rufus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:15 pm
CMur12 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:56 pm
Bryan, I'll accept your correction on British English. "English English," though more accurate, sounds awkward, and yet it is sometimes necessary. I don't think the word "English" by itself is automatically understood by the generality of English speakers to mean "English as spoken in England."

I have lived in Brazil and in Portugal, and I speak Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese Portuguese (or perhaps "Continental Portuguese"), and this terminology, as inelegant as it may be, has been necessary for clarity.

In Portuguese, I would say "Portuguese of Brazil," "Brazilian Portuguese," or even just "Brazilian" (not exactly standard, but often used to make a point), and "Portuguese of Portugal."

- Murray
Murray, I get on this rant from time-to-time, but it’s really more tongue in cheek than correcting someone. What a coincidence, my first two languages were English and Brazilian Portuguese. When I was a very young lad we lived in Rio de Janeiro and I started school there. At home I spoke English with my parents but Portuguese with the servants. At school it was all English, but after school with my Brazilian friends it was all Portuguese. I’ve forgotten almost all of my Brazilian as the last time I used it was in the early 1960s when we were in Portuguese East Africa. Interestingly, both my parents could still speak passable Brazilian Portuguese up to their deaths. I was in Portugal two years ago, but became very tongue tied when it came to the language and hid behind English sadly.
Bryan, so you have Carioca roots! It's a pleasure to know another person with a Brazilian connection.

Your Brazilian Portuguese would have been radically different from that spoken in Portuguese East Africa. Brazilian Portuguese is radically different from the Portuguese spoken most anywhere else, as all others hold more closely to the Continental Portuguese pattern. In my opinion, Brazilian Portuguese is diverging into a separate language, but this opinion invites controversy.

- Murray

Now, back to the English Teacakes and please forgive this little detour.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:00 pm
by EL Alamein
Pass the coffee.

Chris

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 pm
by Rufus
Yesterday I paid s visit to a nearby Cobs Bakery (Cobs is an Australian chain of bakery franchises) and asked if they had English Teacakes. They looked at me blankly and when I explained it was similar to a hot cross bun without the cross they said no. When I got home I went on the Cob website and saw that they offered a fruit bun, but that it is not sold in all their outlets. Whilst on the website I suggested that they might want to add to their lineup in Canada a Dutchie as once made by Tim Hortons; they replied that they’d get back to me in five business days, so we’ll see, but I don’t hold out much hope.

Re: English Teacakes

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:35 am
by drmoss_ca
I'm pleased to report that the dutchies froze OK. Quick to thaw and a quick zap in the microwave and they are very nearly as good as new, and miles better than the crap at Timmies.
I'll buy some lard today....