Types of Hard Shave Soaps

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:04 pm

There was a thread a week or so ago that mentioned Floris now using a vegetable base for their shave soap. Gordon mentioned that they were once tallow based. I ordered a few new soaps and they arrived today and had a look at their ingredients. It appears Trumper Rose soap is also vegetable based and so is Taylor Herbal Sandalwood. D.R. Harris still appears to be tallow based (sodium tallowate). My favourite soap Kent/Mitchell's Wool Fat is also tallow based.

First Question: Were Trumper soaps ever tallow based? What about Taylor?

Second Question: Why does it matter? What is the real difference tallow makes in a shave soap? Feel? Moisturizing? Skin friendliness? If anything tallow seems to be on the way out. If I ever noticed a change in my beloved wool fat (due to a change to veggie based) I would be very upset.

I get good shaves from them both. The Trumper Rose shave today was simply fantastic.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:23 pm

Richard, Yes, until quite recently, the Trumper hard shaving soaps were primarily tallow based. I do agree, however, that the current ones seem to be just about as good. Taylors have been vegetable oil based for longer, but exactly how much longer, I don't know. In general, I've found that tallow based soaps lather more 'richly' and that my skin likes them more. This is true of bath soaps as well. Of course, there are a few exceptions, but other things being equal, tallow based soaps are superior, at least for me. Penhaligons shave soaps are still tallow based, as far as I know, and I suspect that at least some of the Floris ones still are as well. And, D R Harris and Mitchell's/Kent, as you said. Also, Tabac and Cella. There may well be others, but these are the ones that come to mind. I'll be interested in your take on the Taylor's shave soap; how it compares to the Trumpers and Harris's, as it's been years since I used any, and my memory of it is a bit hazy.
Regards,
Gordon

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:02 pm

Gordon, I have only used Taylor once, but it gave me shave that equaled the fantastic shave I had with Trumper Rose yesterday (which almost equaled a Wool Fat shave!). The lather was thick and lubricating and the Sandalwood scent is really nice with herbal notes (hence "herbal sandalwood"). I am really enjoying soaps lately and I am amazed that soaps like Taylors go pretty much unnoticed. Even Trumper soaps don't get talked about that much, it's cream this and cream that. Shame really because they are such good products and I think there is a misconception about soaps being less protective and not offering a thick cushioning lather like a cream. Soaps are great, they last forever and there is no issue about them drying out. I also find soaps easier to use (not like creams are hard to use, soap just feels more convenient).

Arik66 · Post by **Arik66** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:05 pm

Agree. At the moment I'm finding the C & E Sweet Almond Oil soap to be a better shaver and easier to work with then the SAO cream in the glass Jar.

Arik.

Leisureguy · Post by **Leisureguy** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:08 pm

The Kent/Mitchell shaving soap sounds quite interesting. Could you provide a link where it might be ordered? Thanks.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:15 pm

Leisureguy wrote:The Kent/Mitchell shaving soap sounds quite interesting. Could you provide a link where it might be ordered? Thanks.

Search ebay for the Kentbrushes store. That is the cheapest place.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:16 pm

Richard, Thanks for the feedback, sounds good. Maybe I'll pick up some in NYC next month. I do remember thinking that the scent of their sandalwood soap was nice. Regarding soaps and their relative lack of 'press' on the forums, a couple of things come to mind. Firstly, the original trad. shave forum was started by Charles Roberts, and while that was several years back, and the forums have gone through numerous permutations since then, still, some of his influence still lingers, having been 'passed down', as it were. CR was never much for soaps, always touting the creams ( before he cooked up his RMWS trip, with the Cube and all that ).

Secondly, the traditional makers themselves tend to push the creams more heavily. Years ago, I used to order Trumpers directly from the then US distributor ( the same fellow that the founder of AOS then worked for ). I only used hard soaps at the time, and Toby would always try and talk me into getting creams instead. If a newbie walked into Trumpers or Taylors in London, it's dimes to donuts that they'd walk out with a pot of cream rather then a soap bowl. I think there is more profit in the creams, for one thing.

But also, many of us feel that the creams are just a little more 'protective' and with the very sharp DE blades, that's not a bad thing. Creams are generally the product of choice for the experianced safety razor shaver. But over on straightrazorplace, it's mostly hard soaps that the members use.
Regards,
Gordon

TIM8557 · Post by **TIM8557** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:57 pm

I believe that "Wool Fat" is another name for lanolin which historically has been used to soften and soothe skin.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:17 pm

TIM8557 wrote:I believe that "Wool Fat" is another name for lanolin which historically has been used to soften and soothe skin.

Yes, that is right. Great stuff!

Jay1974 · Post by **Jay1974** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:05 pm

ok - so I'm a slow learner and trying to put the soap thing in some kind of cohesive understanding:
There are traditional hard, triple milled soaps (like my over priced AOS Sandalwood in a wood bowl). Triple milled is a process. I have not looked at the ingredients, but it will either be tallow or vegetable oil based? Tallow being animal fat and vegetable oil, being, well oil - both designed to provide 'slipperiness'?
Then there are glycerin based soaps, that are hand poured, a la Mama Bear. Is the glycerin a replacement for the tallow or oil?
Am I missing anything? I know mileage will vary, but so far with my limited experience my lather, shave and overall comfort is better with Mama Bear than my AOS soap (albeit, AOS is the only high end, hard soap I've tried and am sooo tempted to try wool fat, yet another ingredient in place of oil or tallow?). Phew. Thanks,
Jay

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:08 pm

Triple milled soaps lasts maybe about 2 or 3 times longer than glycerin soaps. I have several triple milled soaps that I have had over 2 years.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:20 pm

Jay, I'll try and keep this as straight forward as I can. First, there is the basic process by which the soap is made. There are basically two, in regard to shave soaps; cold process/pour and triple milling. Cold process can be done at home, and creates a less dense, 'softer' soap. Triple milling is considerably more complex, and is done by soap making firms, with special equipment. This process drives more air out of the soap, thus resulting in a more dense, harder soap ( which is why they last much longer ).

Second, there is the composition of the soap itself. Soap is fundementally fatty acids and a base ( usually lye ). The reaction of the two, when mixed with water, is what creates the lather. These fatty acids are derived from either animal fats ( tallow ) or various types of vegetable oil.

Triple milled soaps, whether tallow or veg. oil based, when lathered will create a heavier 'richer' lather ( if worked optimally ), because the soap itself is denser, less air in it you see. I personally also think that if they're also tallow based the lather is a bit richer still, although not everyone agrees with this, necessarily.

So-called glycerine shave soaps, are made by the cold pour process, and are almost always vegetable oil based. Personally, I find that the lather from such soaps do not have enough 'cushion', is not protective enough for my skin and my style of shaving. YMMV, of course.
Regards,
Gordon

fallingwickets · Post by **fallingwickets** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:39 am

Ignorance is bliss. I've used the Taylor's sandalwood and lavender soaps for the longest time and have always enjoyed shaving using them, but I didn't know there were so many different shaving products out there until I joined this forum. Now I'm wondering what I've been missing all these years. It is nice though to see a knowledgeable local like Richard confirm my ignoramus choices

Jay1974 · Post by **Jay1974** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:47 am

Thanks Gordon.

xChris · Post by **xChris** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:21 am

fallingwickets wrote:Ignorance is bliss. I've used the Taylor's sandalwood and lavender soaps for the longest time and have always enjoyed shaving using them, but I didn't know there were so many different shaving products out there until I joined this forum. Now I'm wondering what I've been missing all these years. It is nice though to see a knowledgeable local like Richard confirm my ignoramus choices

If you stuck with them, they were obviously performing -- hardly bliss by "ignorance" alone.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:44 am

fallingwickets wrote:Ignorance is bliss. I've used the Taylor's sandalwood and lavender soaps for the longest time and have always enjoyed shaving using them, but I didn't know there were so many different shaving products out there until I joined this forum. Now I'm wondering what I've been missing all these years. It is nice though to see a knowledgeable local like Richard confirm my ignoramus choices

I tried Taylor Sandalwood and Lavender soaps for the first time just recently and I was very impressed with them. Especially the sandalwood, the scent is really something. These soaps don't seem to get much press which is a real shame. I bet the price-per-use of these soaps (minus the bowls) probably beat the "homemade" variety in terms of longevity (not really an issue though that concerns most of us though

)

kaptain_zero · Post by **kaptain_zero** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:13 pm

Well, I finally got my first 3Ts branded shave soap, the Trufitt & Hill soap in the wooden bowl thanks to Fisherc and I was quite pleased with it's performance. I already had the Tabac and a few of the SCS as well as Williams, Col.Conk and Arko but the T & H was an eyeopener for me. The scent was very nice but the performance was in a whole other realm than the others for me. I've still not gotten around to ordering some Harris, Taylors and Trumpers from Hungerford, but that chore just got moved up to the top of my list!

Christian

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:04 am

Christian, Good show. Now you know what I keep talking about. These are basically superior shaving soaps. Enjoy.
Regards,
Gordon

texasPI · Post by **texasPI** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:12 pm

Well Richard, I received the TOBS Herbal Sandalwood soap today and it smells great! The herbaceous smell of it is similar to the Pre de Provence IMO. Of course you can smell the sandalwood in it.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:00 pm

texasPI wrote:Well Richard, I received the TOBS Herbal Sandalwood soap today and it smells great! The herbaceous smell of it is similar to the Pre de Provence IMO. Of course you can smell the sandalwood in it.

It is really smells fantastic. Shaves good too.