Coates is no more?

LouisIII · Post by **LouisIII** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:19 pm

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread ... ye-Coates-(

From twitter...

"Sadly Coate's is almost broke and will be up for sale later this month. Just couldn't sell enough

"

paddy · Post by **paddy** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:59 pm

pity. i was looking forward to them progressing and trying to recapture some of the quality of the old coates. i guess all we'll have now are the memories.

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:30 pm

Regrettable.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:54 pm

The tea tree and rosemary was it's downfall, scent was not a winner to most and it burned like the dicken's if you used to much cream, if Robert came out of the gate with a killer Rose or Lavender it would have been a home run. If we are luck Vulfix will purchase the name.

Araner · Post by **Araner** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:56 pm

Whistler wrote:If we are luck Vulfix will purchase the name.

What a splendid idea!

Mike

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:11 pm

Whistler wrote:The tea tree and rosemary was it's downfall, scent was not a winner to most and it burned like the dicken's if you used to much cream, if Robert came out of the gate with a killer Rose or Lavender it would have been a home run. If we are luck Vulfix will purchase the name.

The tea tree rosemary was unexpected and disappointing, but many still held out hope that a second product could support the resurrection of the name. A soap was rumored, oh joy!, but when it came out everybody just gave up.

KAV · Post by **KAV** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:12 pm

I don't buy 'names' I buy products. Customers will buy only so much based on name recognition, nostalgia and reputation.After that the product
needs to perform at least on par with the current best.

gil3591 · Post by **gil3591** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:04 pm

had a laugh reading the comments on b&b. those guys didn't have a clue as to what transpired over the past 1.5 years

one of them even said he didn't like coates creams. are you kidding me?

Mindflux · Post by **Mindflux** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:37 pm

gil3591 wrote:had a laugh reading the comments on b&b. those guys didn't have a clue as to what transpired over the past 1.5 years

one of them even said he didn't like coates creams. are you kidding me?

What has transpired? I've been out of the loop raising a kid.

I did gather that it's been sold a time or two in recent years.

LouisIII · Post by **LouisIII** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:39 pm

Whistler wrote:The tea tree and rosemary was it's downfall, scent was not a winner to most and it burned like the dicken's if you used to much cream, if Robert came out of the gate with a killer Rose or Lavender it would have been a home run. If we are luck Vulfix will purchase the name.

I think the cream is actually pretty good; Creightons quality and a scent that, while divisive, has it fans. It's demise is partly due to the falling popularity of British creams and soaps generally. The soap though, I agree, was...disappointing.

Nitrox · Post by **Nitrox** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:59 pm

gil3591 wrote: one of them even said he didn't like coates creams. are you kidding me?

Why that's blasphemy I say!!

I guess he didn't try any of the 'older' creams. Coates was (and is of the stockpile of creams I have) the best cream. I don't know about the newer ones that have been released after the takeover but I treasure the old ones I have like gold.

gil3591 · Post by **gil3591** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:29 pm

Nitrox wrote:
gil3591 wrote: one of them even said he didn't like coates creams. are you kidding me?
Why that's blasphemy I say!!
I guess he didn't try any of the 'older' creams. Coates was (and is of the stockpile of creams I have) the best cream. I don't know about the newer ones that have been released after the takeover but I treasure the old ones I have like gold.

i had the fortune of buying an original (older) tub of coates sandalwood . what a pleasure. i discovered coates when i got into de's, brushes and the better soaps/creams when i joined this forum. without a doubt the best soap/cream i have ever experienced. i knew the new owner was scrambling when he put out the tea tree. an aos cream in his coates tubs. a situation of not enough capital to do the job right i guess.

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:28 am

LouisIII wrote:It's demise is partly due to the falling popularity of British creams and soaps generally.

Really? I'm not convinced.

Traditional wetshaving is experiencing a re-surgence never seen like this before. Here in the UK, people are becoming more interested in how things used to be done, and many are embracing the 'make do and mend' culture which lends itself perfectly to wetshaving; disposable razors and cans of goo are the ultimate example of the throw away society.

Internet fora and YouTube will of course help, but you would be surprised how often our favourite British brands are featured in newspapers, magazines and on television. D.R. Harris even supplied the contents of my amenity kit on a recent flight with British Airways. It is easier than ever to purchase these brands outside of London, and all are releasing new lines quite regularly these days (see my post in General). There is also a fairly steady stream of new retailers and manufacturers coming into the fold all the time.

Sorry, but that doesn't strike me as an industry in decline.

Gareth

joe mcclaine · Post by **joe mcclaine** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 am

The cream (and soap) irritated a LOT of people and the internet was chock full of reviews stating this.

If the new owners had taken just the tiniest bit of notice of the people using their product they might still be in the game.

As business decisions go, that was a rather poor one.

jww · Post by **jww** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:43 am

I actually never have used their product -- but never pleased to see a wet shaving product end its run.

LouisIII · Post by **LouisIII** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:47 am

Gareth wrote:
LouisIII wrote:It's demise is partly due to the falling popularity of British creams and soaps generally.
Really? I'm not convinced.

Gareth,
When I started perusing the forums in say, 2007, British creams and soaps were widely regarded as being the best available. Buying the Coates brand before then would have been a shrewd investment. Now, it seems to me consumers are more turned off by the 'traditional' marketing. If you look at B&B, or the British forum, nobody really rates Trumpers etc. There was a thread about the 'worst' soaps available on B&B recently, and Trumpers was second after Williams Mug soap. And then look at the praise and popularity the Italian soft soaps receive, or the German tallow based hard soaps.

The lesson to be taken from this, I think, has been alluded to above; consumers want quality first and foremost; the brand name doesn't matter. So, while I thought the recent Coates Tea Tree cream was pretty nice, it would have been just as nice without the Coates emblem.

paddy · Post by **paddy** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:37 am

If you look at B&B, or the British forum, nobody really rates Trumpers etc. There was a thread about the 'worst' soaps available on B&B recently, and Trumpers was second after Williams Mug soap. And then look at the praise and popularity the Italian soft soaps receive, or the German tallow based hard soaps.

that's funny 'cos trumpers soaps are highly rated by many members here. and it's not as if the members here on this board have just taken up wet shaving overnight. maybe there's just a bit of inverse snobbery at work there.

fwiw i have actually a pot of the new coates tea tree and rosemary and it is just ok. i don't mind the scent.

in the past i was fortunate enough to have worked my way though pots of both the old coates sandalwood and limes shaving cream. i thought they were excellent, but no better than a couple of other top creams in my arsenal.

gsgo · Post by **gsgo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:27 am

It is indeed unfortunate that a resurrection of a venerable brand name has come to this end. It bears out that "brand names" do carry a strong influence especially amongst many of us here populating the wet shave forms. Unfortunately if the product, as in this case, was unable to emulate the past product in a suitable fashion from either a performance or even esthetic way it really was put into a precarious position right out of the chute. Coates will live on in all of our minds whether we have used it or not simply by the written word of it's legendary performance hopefully to not be tainted by this diversion.

As I see it, we are very lucky to have so many products and resources available from around the world to support us in this past time, it's sad that one doesn't make it, but rest assured this does not herald the end.

insomniac · Post by **insomniac** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:56 am

LouisIII wrote: Gareth,
When I started perusing the forums in say, 2007, British creams and soaps were widely regarded as being the best available. Buying the Coates brand before then would have been a shrewd investment. Now, it seems to me consumers are more turned off by the 'traditional' marketing. If you look at B&B, or the British forum, nobody really rates Trumpers etc. There was a thread about the 'worst' soaps available on B&B recently, and Trumpers was second after Williams Mug soap. And then look at the praise and popularity the Italian soft soaps receive, or the German tallow based hard soaps.

As far as I know, the British creams are still held in high regard - Trumpers Coconut seems to be a perpetual favorite, along with certain T&H and TOBS scents, and of course there is Penhaligons.

As to what happened to the soaps - a few years ago most of the main brands of British soaps (Trumpers, T&H, and especially Penhaligons) were reformulated to either lessen or remove tallow as an ingredient. I've talked with many about the impact on Penhaligons and it sounds like that soap went from one of the finest made to being quite awful.

I would hesitate to say that all English soaps have a poor reputation - DR Harris is widely regarded by many, especially their Arlington line; MWF is of course a mainstay; and while I have not personally tried their soaps, Czech and Speake has a following. (Being made by the same company that makes AoS soaps doesn't hurt.)

LouisIII · Post by **LouisIII** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:24 am

insomniac wrote: I would hesitate to say that all English soaps have a poor reputation -

Like I said, the Coates cream was nice enough (somewhat alarming # of 'reactions' to it notwithstanding) - what I was hinting at was the loss of the mystique of the London firms stuff. Yes, Trumpers creams are nice, but so are Art of Shavings, and eShave's, and the Body Shops...and they're all made in the same factory. Consumers (at least, internet consumers) are more aware of this now, it seems to me.