Trumper Has Gone Too Far

What is your opinion on fine shaving creams and hard soaps? Do you like Trumpers, Coates, Taylors, Truefitt & Hill? Post your reviews and opinions here!
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Craig_From_Cincy
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Trumper Has Gone Too Far

Post by Craig_From_Cincy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:08 pm

In the inimitable words of Bugs Bunny: "Now this means war!".

http://youtu.be/E8_GVfPuw4M

I just received a new tube of Trumper Sandalwood Cream this evening. Production code on the box reads 1209, which according to posts I've read here and elsewhere likely means that it was manufactured in September of 2012. The big, wonderful, lush and almost smoky scent of Trumper's Sandalwood Shave Cream has been muted beyond belief. I whipped up a small amount of my cream this evening and could hardly recognize the scent. The lather is fine, but the scent has been diluted and now has a noticeable soapy element that was not present previously.

I had stocked up on Trumper Sandalwood Cream when it was on sale back in 2010 or so and used the last tube a few days ago. I fished that tube out of the garbage tonight and cut it open, scraped the last bits of cream out of it and whipped it into lather to compare with the new cream. The scents aren't even close. The scent of 2012 cream literally pales by comparison with the older sample.

I have taken my complaints directly to Trumper via email and social media. I emailed Trumper with my complaints about the state of their soaps and creams, posted a similar complaint on their Facebook wall, and sent a series of complaints via Twitter as well. I was polite, briefly listed my issues with their products, and told them that until they've addressed the shortcomings in their products (that they themselves have created) I won't be purchasing any more Trumper products and will take my shave dollars elsewhere.

If you are equally disappointed with the state of Trumpers products as I am then I invite you to join me in letting Trumper know your concerns. Companies need feedback in order to respond to their customers wants and needs, so we will be doing Trumper a favor in the long run by letting them know that we, their customers, are not happy with the changes to their products and will no longer purchase them. If many of us speak up who knows, Trumper might respond by restoring their products to their former glory.

Trumper Contact info:

Twitter: http://twitter.com/GeoTrumper ( @GeoTrumper )
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GeoTrumper
Email: enquiries@trumpers.com
Snailmail:
Geo F Trumper
166 Fairbridge Road
London, UK N19 3HT
Cheers,

Craig

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Post by rsp1202 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:41 pm

Good work, Craig. A shame about the Sandalwood cream; I used to use it regularly and liked it a lot. I need to keep up with these developments more than I have, and it's postings like yours that keep us all well informed as to the State of Reformulation (more like Dis-formulation, if that's a word). I don't know what Clive will have to say about it, but I've also heard Trumper's Rose soap has slipped badly too. And since I couldn't handle the after-scent of their Limes cream, that doesn't leave a lot of Trumper stuff I would want to go after.
Ron

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Post by gil3591 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:48 pm

i bought a tube of trumpers sandalwood cream a few months ago and it smells delightful. just like the old coates (almost). i'm very happy with it and will continue to use it. i don't have the box but the tube is stamped with: 20930. don't know if it's a production code
Gil
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Craig_From_Cincy
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Post by Craig_From_Cincy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:17 am

I received a reply from Trumper this morning:
from: Rebecca Baron <Rebecca@XXX.com>
to: Craig Hochscheid
date: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:29 AM
subject: RE: Shave Soap Performance

Dear Mr Hochscheid,

Thank you for your email and the contents therein.

There are no current plans to change the formulation of our shaving soaps.

We have not received any similar comments regarding the performance of the soaps, however, please be assured we take all customer feedback on board, and we thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Kind Regards,

Miss Rebecca Baron

Geo. F. Trumper (P&P) Ltd
166 Fairbridge Road
London N19 3HT
Telephone: +44 (0) 207 272 1765
Email: rebecca@trumpers.com
Website: www.trumpers.com
Ms Baron's response is completely disingenuous as I have read of many complaints being emailed to Trumper on this and other shave forums. Then there are the scores of complaints about Trumpers soaps that have posted to those forums by their members. Trumper is either in a state of denial about any issues with their shave soap performance, or they are flat out lying about not receiving any complaints about their soaps. Send your thoughts to Trumper about the current state of their products as they obviously need to hear feedback from their customers en masse.
Cheers,

Craig

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Post by John Parker » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Good grief! The cream, too?!?

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Post by bernards66 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:59 pm

Craig, Yeah, well they lied to Mr. Bargepole, and others, about changing the scent of their Violet cream a few years ago when everyone familiar with that cream knew that they had. It would have been much better if they had at least admitted that EU scent 'regulations' had pressured them into making a change in the ingrediants, but no, they just stone-walled the whole thing. I don't know what has caused them to alter the fine scent of their Sandalwood cream ( one of my two favourites from them ) or even if the change is permanant ( ref: the Harris's hard soap situation ), but if it is, they've made yet another mistake.
Regards,
Gordon

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Post by mikey » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:56 pm

I hope they don't "reformulate" their Skin Food line.

Anyone who has purchase a bottle recently care to chime in?

Thanks,
Mike

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Teiste
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Post by Teiste » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:16 pm

I was watching yesterday a "Poirot" episode on the PBS , and David Suchet (the actor who have played Poirot for over 20 years now) was outside Geo F Trumper shop in London purchasing a fragrance and being greeted by "Mr Trumper" himself.The funny thing is that the perfume gave.. , anyway , watch it by yourself if you have time or desire :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Eo1h-6Bnc

I highly doubt that Mr Poirot or many other gentlemen will buy stuff from Geo F Trumper.I have 5 of the old tallow soaps , 3 of the new 2008 veggie soaps and I recently used a new Sandalwood one , with the hope that I could make it lather like the Eucris soap , and no , no way...The new Spanish lather cream wasnt as good as the old ones either (very fine lather , and ok scent).

I truly want to like Geo F Trumper , but with the new soaps and creams I cant.I will send an email but I highly doubt that they will do something about it.

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Post by F.W. Fitch » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:42 pm

What the production staff did was to get a bottle of Wellington after shave for that scene! I sure hope it was the after shave version! Note the badger hair quality in the window as he leaves the storefront! If only I could walk in there circa. 1991 and load-up on a few choice items I have in mind. Bill? Gordon? Anyone listening?

Also, any pictures of this newest, abominable sandalwood soap? Are the stickers different on the cello or how to detect if it's the latest incarnation?
Last edited by F.W. Fitch on Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Teiste
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Post by Teiste » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:49 pm

F.W. Fitch wrote:What the production staff did was to get a bottle of Curzon after shave for that scene! I sure hope it was the after shave version! Note the badger hair quality in the window as he leaves the storefront! If only I could walk in there circa. 1991 and load-up on a few choice items I have in mind. Bill? Gordon? Anyone listening?

Also, any pictures of this newest, abominable sandalwood soap? Are the stickers different on the cello or how to detect if it's the latest incarnation?
Sodium Palmate as first ingredient , my friend. Thats how you will detect it.The old Sandalwood (veggie based , circa 2008) has Potassium Palmate as first ingredient.

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Post by F.W. Fitch » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:52 pm

Thanks Teiste! Much appreciated! Yeah, that's either Curzon or Wellington for certain! I changed it to Wellington as it's more of a brownish-red drum! I still have my eagle eye...yep!

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Post by Craig_From_Cincy » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:56 pm

Teiste wrote:I was watching yesterday a "Poirot" episode on the PBS , and David Suchet (the actor who have played Poirot for over 20 years now) was outside Geo F Trumper shop in London purchasing a fragrance and being greeted by "Mr Trumper" himself.The funny thing is that the perfume gave.. , anyway , watch it by yourself if you have time or desire :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Eo1h-6Bnc

I highly doubt that Mr Poirot or many other gentlemen will buy stuff from Geo F Trumper.I have 5 of the old tallow soaps , 3 of the new 2008 veggie soaps and I recently used a new Sandalwood one , with the hope that I could make it lather like the Eucris soap , and no , no way...The new Spanish lather cream wasnt as good as the old ones either (very fine lather , and ok scent).

I truly want to like Geo F Trumper , but with the new soaps and creams I cant.I will send an email but I highly doubt that they will do something about it.
I love that scene. Then again, I love Suchet's Poirot. His is the consummate Poirot, just as Jeremy Brett was the consummate Holmes.
Cheers,

Craig

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Teiste
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Post by Teiste » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:20 pm

Craig_From_Cincy wrote:
Teiste wrote:I was watching yesterday a "Poirot" episode on the PBS , and David Suchet (the actor who have played Poirot for over 20 years now) was outside Geo F Trumper shop in London purchasing a fragrance and being greeted by "Mr Trumper" himself.The funny thing is that the perfume gave.. , anyway , watch it by yourself if you have time or desire :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Eo1h-6Bnc

I highly doubt that Mr Poirot or many other gentlemen will buy stuff from Geo F Trumper.I have 5 of the old tallow soaps , 3 of the new 2008 veggie soaps and I recently used a new Sandalwood one , with the hope that I could make it lather like the Eucris soap , and no , no way...The new Spanish lather cream wasnt as good as the old ones either (very fine lather , and ok scent).

I truly want to like Geo F Trumper , but with the new soaps and creams I cant.I will send an email but I highly doubt that they will do something about it.
I love that scene. Then again, I love Suchet's Poirot. His is the consummate Poirot, just as Jeremy Brett was the consummate Holmes.
Craig , Im a devote fan of Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes and David Suchet as Poirot.I cant even tell you how many times I have watched the same episodes over and over...

Anyway , thanks for this initiative.I will send my email tomorrow morning.As I said , I highly doubt that they're going to do something , but at least , we , as customers and fans of the old Geo F Trumper stuff , wont remain in "silence".

Oh If I could ever get an old vintage Duke 3 made by Simpson for Trumper's...

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Post by brothers » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:48 am

It's a fact of life that Trupmer's stinks, and I've said that before here. Anyway the truth is that there are way too many really good current products that work really well. I'm far more happy to buy, use, and compliment the great new products and more importantly, I and many others are happily spending the money to buy the new good stuff. What does it say about "us" when a dead duck fuddy duddy like GFT on life support can generate 10 or 20 times more posts than any of the new product selling and money making firms? These reallly are the good old days. Thank goodness and Vince for places like SMF where we can talk about this stuff without fear of being censored.
Gary

SOTD 99%: 12 soaps & creams, SilkSmoke synthetic, General V2 by Colonial razors, Kai & Schick, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444 asb

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Post by bernards66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:19 pm

Gary, I wish I shared your view of what's available now, life would be simpliar I'm sure, but unfortunately I don't. I rely on these old firms because I've found their products to be the best. While there is stuff out there that is so new that I haven't tried it my prior experiments with various 'new style' shave creams from other firms and individuals all proved disappointing and the few that seemed 'almost as good' were all as expensive, often even more so ( MdC being one good example ). I lack the patience and the money to just keep trying every new thing that comes along in the vague hope that it might 'do it' for me. On the positive side I still find most of these old English products, most of the time, to still be excellent but it's undenieably gotten a bit more dicey than it once was.
Regards,
Gordon

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Post by 95% » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:38 am

On the general subject of product reformulation, I suspect that many of the changes we notice – at least changes in fragrance - are unintentional on the part of the manufacturer. The specifications for a shave soap or cream may remain exactly the same, yet the results turn out differently. How could that happen? Well, speaking as a layman not a botanist or perfumer, I think fine toiletries are scented with natural extracts from plants. But plants change genetically from generation to generation. If my new tube of violet cream smells different from what I’m used to, perhaps it’s because the base fragrance originated in a different field of violets, unbeknownst to Trumper’s, Creighton’s, or whoever made the final product. For similar reasons, my favorite specialty coffee may taste different this year, even though it came from the same grower. In addition to genetic variation, weather and soil quality, as well as modifications in processing, will affect the final product.

Drugstore products don’t have this problem because their fragrances are synthetic. All those dreary soaps, creams, shampoos, etc. are engineered to contain the same fragrance molecules year after year. But with the high-quality, naturally-scented products that wetshavers enjoy, we’ll no doubt be surprised again and again by changes which are unwelcome, if only because we have grown accustomed to something else.
Porter

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Post by dosco » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:02 am

95% wrote:On the general subject of product reformulation, I suspect that many of the changes we notice – at least changes in fragrance - are unintentional on the part of the manufacturer.
Possibly true and certainly reasonable, however it doesn't explain the reports of poor lather quality.

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Post by drmoss_ca » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:29 am

bernards66 wrote:Gary, I wish I shared your view of what's available now, life would be simpler I'm sure, but unfortunately I don't. I rely on these old firms because I've found their products to be the best. While there is stuff out there that is so new that I haven't tried it my prior experiments with various 'new style' shave creams from other firms and individuals all proved disappointing and the few that seemed 'almost as good' were all as expensive, often even more so ( MdC being one good example ). I lack the patience and the money to just keep trying every new thing that comes along in the vague hope that it might 'do it' for me. On the positive side I still find most of these old English products, most of the time, to still be excellent but it's undenieably gotten a bit more dicey than it once was.
Regards,
Gordon
I'm mostly in agreement with this, but then I remember that these companies are now run by ethics-free individuals who have been hired to improve the bottom line regardless of other considerations. After all, if you offend and drive away your past core customer base but make more money doing so, who amongst the owners will complain? Whenever pride in traditional quality is subjugated to profit there will be trouble. One of my several beefs against capitalism as a candidate for the best way to run a society.
95% wrote:The specifications for a shave soap or cream may remain exactly the same, yet the results turn out differently. How could that happen? Well, speaking as a layman not a botanist or perfumer, I think fine toiletries are scented with natural extracts from plants. But plants change genetically from generation to generation. If my new tube of violet cream smells different from what I’m used to, perhaps it’s because the base fragrance originated in a different field of violets, unbeknownst to Trumper’s, Creighton’s, or whoever made the final product.
Aww, so sweet - lovely to see such naivety and innocence in nature. But since one of the pleasures in life that abides as we age is the corruption of innocence and youth, I refer you to my first paragraph as a brief lesson in reality. Should you actually believe that Trumper's Violet cream has changed only because of genetic changes in the violet flower I have to congratulate you in maintaining such faith in human nature in the face of all the evidence! I also have a bridge you might be interested in....

Chris
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Pierre-Simon de Laplace

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Post by bernards66 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:15 pm

Chris, Well unfortunately there seems to be considerable truth in what you write...alas! Hopefully it's not entirely true. Since most of these firms do little advertising I wonder if they would be well served by destroying their core customer base. I would hope that they would seriously consider this. Although it upsets me ( and I'd like to see some of them just refuse to go along ) I can kind of understand changes that are made due to pressure from the EU scent cartel. But offering a product that they must know ( mustn't they? ) is markedly inferior to what they've been selling to their customers for decades just to make a few more bucks right NOW is unwise, IMO. Still, I must repeat that all the English shave creams I've gotten in the last few years ( from Trumper, T&H, DRH, and Taylors ) have all worked superbly. Got a great shave with that brand new tube of Trumpers Violet this morning. Sure, I wish they hadn't dicked with the scent but it's still a really nice shave product.
Regards,
Gordon

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Post by jtpca » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:49 pm

It think you are spot on Gordon. There is considerable risk in depreciating a brand that carries its market share from repeat customers and word of mouth.

Creativity on their part would go along way - though selling a product that claims to be the original, though performs like hotel soap could be disastrous for their long term brand.
Jason

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