Rolling My Own

[John Parker]

Thank you, Chris! Most interesting! And I gather that my selecting/mixing fragrances ahead of time probably may not give one a very true idea of what the final soap scent will end up as, given heat (as you said) and the impact of the other soap ingredients you mix it into.

Another question, if I may.
Lard 46%
Stearic Acid 30%
Coconut Oil (76º) 15%
Castor Oil 7%
Lanolin 2%
50% NaOH and 50% KOH
In soap formulae (copied the one above here), why does one end up with over 100%? The math works for me right down till the NaOH and KOH. Then I get 200%.

Thanks for your patience, John

[drmoss_ca]

No problem! The fats and oils should add up to 100%. The alkalis are a separate consideration, and I use half NaOH and half KOH. It might have been clearer if I wrote 50:50 for these two. Now, when you go to SoapCalc, the saponification numbers for each fat will vary for sodium vs. potassium hydroxide, so you have to do two calculations, one for the half of the batch that is being saponified by NaOH and again for the other half with KOH. So for example with a two pound batch you get:

For NaOH:


and for KOH:


Then I add up the amounts quoted for all of the fats, oils, alkalis and water in the two recipes, rounding up or down as needed:
Lard 418g
Stearic acid 272g
Coconut Oil 136g
Castor Oil 64g
Lanolin 18g
NaOH 63g
KOH 88g
Water 344g

and this will make 2lb of soap. Do ask if anything else is unclear, as it is a lot of effort to go to if you end up with a toxic mess to throw away because something was done incorrectly!

Chris

[John Parker]

Thank you, Chris! Now it is clear! Well, the formula did end up being more complicated than I thought, but I will study it. Just retired (again) and, foreseeing time on my hands and reading what you and Gary have been up to, perhaps I will take a stab at this some day!

Appreciate it, John

[brothers]

John, I will freely admit I am not yet competent when it comes to fragrances for my soaps. Chris' explanation applies in my case also. Hit or miss, hopefully learning something every time, but by no means confident in my fragrance-adding skills. I do subscribe to the practice of only adding my scents when the product is right at the tipping point between being warm enough to mix fragrance into, and below the flash point of the scent (if I know it).

In response to the mystery of the combination of two different lye products, while still adding up to 100%, I did struggle with that challenge and ended up with the final result Chris describes. I knew what Chris was saying, but at first I was mis-interpreting it, until I figured it out and the soap turned out great.

[tester]

This is where I got the idea to add the stearic last:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaPRvKiViO4

Seems to work well for me. I add the stearic, a lot more than what is pictured in the video, put the lid on the pot, and walk away for a half hour. I have found very little heat should be needed at this point, and my crock pot actually seems too hot. IMO, a double boiler is the way to go and seems to work better in my experimentations.

[drmoss_ca]

I have had success with the double boiler, one unsatisfactory batch and one that had to be discarded from a slow cooker. It might be that I set it too hot, after all, a double boiler isn't going to get above 100ºC. The only thing about the way I make a double boiler out of a huge jam pan and my biggest cooking pan is that I'm using steel and the lye might hurt the surface of the inner pan. I should probably experiment with the slow cooker set to lower temperatures.

The lady in that video certainly uses slow cookers - for those that haven't watched she has a benchful of them lined up all cooking away. Impressive.

Chris

[Squire]

I'm finding this soap talk fascinating.

[tester]

Not wanting to resurrect an older thread...but...

I continue to get the best shaves ever from a reverse engineered recipe of MdC, posted by a B&B member. I take no credit for his recipe, but I can only repeat the praises of his success. Simple ingredients, so here it is again:

Stearic Acid 52%
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 48%
100% KOH lye
Glycerine to superfat -5% superfat works out equivalent 3 tbsp of glycerin per lb of fats

I added a few drops of different essential oils. Lavender, Cedar, Lime. I have 50 or so bought soaps and creams, including some very highly regarded and expensive like Acqua Di Parma and SMN Crema Da Barba. The homemade version of MdC is better than all of them. The only thing I can't create are some of the wonderful scents available from bought products.

This process has opened my eyes to one thing. In the past I believed that a good soap or cream was only achievable through the use of beef tallow, and to a lesser extent pig lard. I have been proven wrong on in both cases.

I have ordered some of the more exotic vegetable butters to experiment with - Shea, cocoa, avocado, mango. They are expensive butters to buy, but still much cheaper compared to $50 or $60 for the previously mentioned Italian soaps. I'll follow up in a week or two with the results of their use.

And please, before anyone considers buying a $50 or $60 product again - spend less and buy the ingredients to replicate the above recipe. You will never regret it.

[fallingwickets]

before anyone considers buying a $50 or $60 product again - spend less and buy

i bought a reversed engineered mdc and it isnt anything nearly as good as the real mdc which in my experience just proves the old tale: sometimes things are worth what you pay for them!

clive

[tester]

Clive,

All I'm suggesting is buy the ingredients yourself and give it a go. If you bought some reversed engineered MdC, well, you didn't "cook" it yourself and you can't be too sure of the ingredients or process. Besides, I found the process to be very interesting and fun. I can make a superlative soap in every aspect at home for pennies, but I can't obviously replicate some of the unique scents.

In my case, I'd put the simple recipe I shared ahead of anything else I have - and I have a quite a lot, including some ridiculously priced stuff that now doesn't seem to impress me so much. If you want to, drop me a PM and I'll sent you a sample of my croap in the mail for free.

[John Parker]

Tester, this all sounds very interesting! Wish I knew more about it. Before long I may be tempted to actually try making a soap. Particularly if I knew how to scent it.

[Gene]

Tester, this all sounds very interesting! Wish I knew more about it. Before long I may be tempted to actually try making a soap. Particularly if I knew how to scent it.

Adding scent to a soap is as subjective as anything else in this forum...what you love would likely generate an equal number of love/hate comments from the members. You have to do what appeals to you.

That said - I think I read somewhere that about 0.8 to one ounce fragrance oil to one (or was it two) pounds of soap was about right...more or less "to taste".

I have made two body soaps so far - one had 2 ounces of lemongrass essential oil (EO), and the other had 1 ounce lavender EO. The lemongrass is a bit strong, but I love it. Lavender is a bit light, but still quite nice. Both also had one ounce of Tea Tree EO. Both soaps were between 2 and 3 pounds.

Just need to make sure the soap isn't too hot when you add the EO - lest it disperse in too much heat.

[fallingwickets]

Thanks for the offer....very much appreciated and very generous of you

clive

[drmoss_ca]

before anyone considers buying a $50 or $60 product again - spend less and buy

i bought a reversed engineered mdc and it isnt anything nearly as good as the real mdc which in my experience just proves the old tale: sometimes things are worth what you pay for them!

clive

I could never figure out why there was a fan club for MdC. Perhaps it just doesn't agree with my water.

Chris

[fallingwickets]

Chris, for me the scent is a nice change up from rose and as far as lather goes, i think its ok for a shave now and then. Plus the glass jar looks very posh; a kiss the girls facilitation

clive

[brothers]

Scent notwithstanding, my [MdC Clone] soap performs even better than the real brand of soap that it is the clone of. It's the gold medal winner on my shelf. Around the first of March I'm going to make a pound of it with my tobacco fragrance that's been sealed up with its carrier oil for almost a month now. It it stinks, I won't mind, because I'll use it anyway.

[fallingwickets]

so gary, a tabac mdc mashup??

[brothers]

ummm - probably not scentwise, for sure, performance-wise, probably better, because I'm prejudiced, and can't be objective in this instance.

[brothers]

Yesterday I made two pounds of soap. The performance of the fresh soap is at the 99th percentile, but the fragrance issue, while markedly improved, should continue to be referred to as a work in progress. Each failure brings me one step closer to success. I have one pound of Tobacco Absolute fragrance soap, and one of Atlas Cedarwood. Not bad, just not strong enough. My wife accuses me of being scared of adding too much, and I don't have to admit it, but I glady will, she knows me better than I know myself, and I think she's right. Next time I'll double it and see what happens.

[TRBeck]

Gary, if you double it and find it's too much, you can rebatch by making a fresh round of unscented soap and adding your finished batch to it in the crockpot to melt down and mingle. I say go for it.