Does it matter where you buy colognes?

What kind of fragrances do you prefer?
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DaveInPhilly
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Does it matter where you buy colognes?

Post by DaveInPhilly »

I'm not sure if this is actually the right forum, but I finally wondered my way into Sacks so I could try some of the Bond scents first hand. I really liked a couple, as well as a couple of the Creed scents. Now, I know these suckers are a bit pricey, but it seems that they are just about the same price everywhere they are sold, and there doesn't seem to be too many places that carry them. Are there any places where one can go to save a few bucks on this sort of stuff, or am I relegated to paying full retail?


(edited because I have awful grammar)
Last edited by DaveInPhilly on Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sam
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Post by Sam »

You could try basenotes.net

Sam
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Post by DaveInPhilly »

Well that answered that. I still can't find Bond No 9, but apparently I was going to pay about $100 too much for the Creed stuff.

=D> Thanks Sam!

\:D/
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Post by Sam »

I got my creed from creeddirect, a seller on Ebay, who opened the bond store in NYC and discontinued carrying Creed. I got my wife a backup bottle of Spring Flowers and me some GIT and some MI for half price. I also have backup bottles of my Fumerie Turque and Eau des Iles. Keep your eyes peeled for deals on Basenotes, as they usually come around if you wait

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Post by bernards66 »

Dave, With most high priced 'exclusive' scents like that, your only hope is what's called "grey goods', that are available via the internet. No bricks and mortar store or regular web 'store' is going to be offering them for less. Outfits like Creed go to considerable trouble to ensure that their products are never sold for 'discounted' prices.
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Post by fisherc »

Creed is widely available in the "gray" market. And recently Bond No. 9 has been showing up on eBay. Both houses "attempt" to control their product's distribution but to no avail. Some of the better online "gray" sellers are http://www.perfumebay.com , http://www.scentiments.com , and http://www.1parfum.com . The Bond No. 9 "seller" on eBay has good quality product at 1/2 off retail.
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Post by DaveInPhilly »

bernards66 wrote:Dave, With most high priced 'exclusive' scents like that, your only hope is what's called "grey goods', that are available via the internet. No bricks and mortar store or regular web 'store' is going to be offering them for less. Outfits like Creed go to considerable trouble to ensure that their products are never sold for 'discounted' prices.
Regards,
Gordon
Well I'm not sure how grey market this is, but I have found many sites linked directly through Basenotes that sell the Creed scents below the $100 mark, while I nearly paid more than twice that at Saks on Sunday.
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Post by bernards66 »

Dave, Yeah, they're 'grey goods'. The term generally refers to goods that have somehow been 're-routed' out of the normal distribution channels. This happens in a number of different ways. Just to give you one example of this type of thing, I've bought bottles of Creed that had some of the labeling and/or info literature in Arabic. These goods were sent out to the Middle East via normal distribution channels, but were then somehow re-routed, or resold to concerns in North America. The problem with grey goods is that you can never be sure what you're getting, as there are also some actual counterfeit stuff produced of popular expensive lines like Creed. Sometimes they are quite cleverly done. Now, sources linked through basenotes have probably been found to be reliable, I would imagine. But, you're not going to walk into any regular store in the US and find Creed products for any less then Saks sells them for.
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Gordon
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Post by DaveInPhilly »

What are the ethical implications of buying grey market? I have no problem taking my chances, or buying from dealers who may not be "authorized retailers" so long as the goods themselves come through legitimate channels. I avoid stuff that has been stolen, or anything that will in some way hurt the manufacturer. Being a student of economics I know that quite a few manufacturers increase their profits in just this fashion, by selling at one price point to those who will pay the premium, and selling at another for those who would not otherwise purchase, ala Intel's Celeron and Brooks' 386 line. I guess I just have weird ethical hick-ups, I don’t like screwing The Man.
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Post by MOSES »

DaveInPhilly wrote:I guess I just have weird ethical hick-ups, I don’t like screwing The Man.
And you are an Attorney (almost)! For Shame! Did you miss the "how to not mind screwing people, especially the man" class in law school. :)

Seriously though, I would like to know the answer to this too. I really can't justify paying Creed prices to myself, but I might like to try some at the grey market prices sometime. But only if I can feel comfortable about it. But then, if Gordon is ok with it, I am not that worried.

-Mo
Alrighty, stickim up and hand over the Coates real nice and slow like....
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Post by bernards66 »

Dave, From Creed's point of view, all grey goods are an abomination, and they would stamp them out utterly, if they could. On the other hand, their mark-up on this stuff is hugh, and Oliver Creed has become very wealthy indeed on it. So, it's up to you to decide.
Regards,
Gordon
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Post by DaveInPhilly »

From a purely logistical point of veiw, shouldn't it be easy for someplace like Creed to stop this? These sites seem pretty well established corporately, you would think Creed would be able to take legal action to enjoin the sale of the goods. I happened to notice that one of the sites, at least, was located out on Long Island, so its not a jurisdictional thing. Also, from the talk around Basenotes, it seems like Creed's production levels are fairly low (hence the high prices) so shouldn't it be fairly easy figure out who is "redirecting" and stop supplying them?

(I'm not trying to justify my purchase, I haven't made one...yet, but I am genuinely curious if Creed really does not support this in some way. It just seems that it would be easy for them to stop it if they want to. Its not like these guys are selling out of garbage bags down in China Town.)
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Post by DaveInPhilly »

On a side note. What is a Millesime?
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Post by bernards66 »

Dave, No, actually it wouldn't be at all easy, and more to the point, it would be very costly. It's just not worth it to them. Look at that Ashford site. They are forever selling T&H products below the normal set price, in direct contradiction to the agreement that Guy Cartwright has with T&H in London. Yet, they continue to do it. But you will not find T&H products sold in any actual store for less then his set price. Millesime is Creed's name for eau de parfum, or 'double strength cologne'.
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Post by Ken »

Dave,

"Millesime" is a French word that means "year." It is frequently applied to wine, as, e.g. "un bon millesime." It can also refer to the date on a coin. It is not used as a substitute for "annee," which is a general term meaning "year." I'm not sure why Creed chose the name, but it does sound nice.

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Post by Bargepole »

Ken wrote:Dave,

"Millesime" is a French word that means "year." It is frequently applied to wine, as, e.g. "un bon millesime." It can also refer to the date on a coin. It is not used as a substitute for "annee," which is a general term meaning "year." I'm not sure why Creed chose the name, but it does sound nice.

Ken
My understanding is slightly different, but it's based on my experience of southern France. It generally means a particularly fine vintage -- the "millésime" is literally the digit signifying "thousands", i.e. 2006 would have the "millésime" of "2". By inference, it sort of means one-in-a-thousand. In perfumery it generally means an extra concentrated manifestation -- e.g. if the baseline was eau de toilette, a "millésime" would be an eau de parfum.

The literal "year" words are "an" for just a year ("Il a trente-six ans" = "he is thirty six years old") whereas "année" is a particular year somehow distinguished ("la dernière année etait vachement terrible pour moi" = "last year was a bloody awful one for me").

At least that's how it goes in common French French. Canadian French may be different. I don't know.
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Post by Ken »

Barge,

"Millesime" can indeed be used to refer to a numeral indicating 1000 in a date. My copy of Petit Robert 1, which is a French-only dictionary, gives the example, "Charte datee de 350, au lieu de 1350, par oubli du millesime." But its use is generally limited to wine vintages and dates on coins. Every source I have seen indicates that "millesime" can be used to apply to any vintage of wine See, e.g., Serena Sutcliffe, The Oxford Companion to Wine, 2d edition (1999) and Frank Schoonmaker, Encyclopedia of Wine, 1st edition (1964). C.f. Petit Robert 1 (1985), which merely refers to a vintage, not a good one. Indeed both Sutcliffe and Schoonmaker note that a wine with a vintage date is said to be "millesime"--with acute accents on both e's--as does Petit Robert. And, yes, there is a difference between "an" and "annee." You will notice I referred to "annee" as "a general term meaning 'year'." I did not say "the" general term, but I was merely intending to show that the use of "millesime" is limited in a way that "annee" (and of course "an") is not.

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Post by DaveInPhilly »

bernards66 wrote:Dave, No, actually it wouldn't be at all easy, and more to the point, it would be very costly. It's just not worth it to them. Look at that Ashford site. They are forever selling T&H products below the normal set price, in direct contradiction to the agreement that Guy Cartwright has with T&H in London. Yet, they continue to do it. But you will not find T&H products sold in any actual store for less then his set price. Millesime is Creed's name for eau de parfum, or 'double strength cologne'.
Regards,
Gordon
It would seem you are correct. I did a little searching, and it seems that Creed actually did litigate the issue to an extent, and won the right to be exclusive in their distribution, and keep there stuff out of stores they didn't approve of. This is rather interestinig. It has the makings of an interesting paper if I were still in school.
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Post by Bargepole »

Ken wrote:Barge,

...Every source I have seen indicates that "millesime" can be used to apply to any vintage of wine See, e.g., Serena Sutcliffe, The Oxford Companion to Wine, 2d edition (1999) and Frank Schoonmaker, Encyclopedia of Wine, 1st edition (1964). C.f. Petit Robert 1 (1985), which merely refers to a vintage, not a good one....
Ken
Ah, Ken, a man after my own heart, citations and all. I think we need more rigour (some may call it pedantry but it's not exactly pedantry, is it?) on this board.

But the wine usages are fascinating. (I know very little about wine, and I'm not even sure what I like. Except La Tache. I had a bottle once. Back in the day.)
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Post by Sam »

On the Millisime issue, there is a year stamped on the back of the box of my Creed Green Irish Tweed and Millisime Imperial. In fact, for some reason, and speaking from memory since I am at work, the word Millisime is on each bottle, so Millisime Imperial is actually just Imperial. By the way, my boxes had 2003 and 2004 on them even though one was from Creed direct and suppossedly they would have had fresh or almost fresh stock, since they were at one time an authorized distributor of Creed before electing not to carry it in favor of the Bond line

Sam
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