Locking the Thread?

What kind of shaving brush do you use? Tell us all about it!
razorguy
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Locking the Thread?

Post by razorguy »

After the "Master" speaks no other posts that might conflict with his verdict are permitted? That's gentlemanly!

razorguy
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Chris
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Re: Locking the Thread?

Post by Chris »

razorguy wrote:After the "Master" speaks no other posts that might conflict with his verdict are permitted? That's gentlemanly!

razorguy
Judging from this post, you're the last one who should be debating who is a gentleman or not.
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Post by razorguy »

spoken like a true partisan!
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Post by razorguy »

Joel

Respectfully, your position is simply not appropriate. Yes, the subject was getting "out of hand" and yes, there were some tempers beginning to flare - but who's posts were the most inflamatory? YOURS! Who elevated the temperature of the thread? YOU! then after you delivered your manifesto you promptly locked the thread so that nobody could disagree with you. That is censorship in its finest form. An action that you yourself claimed as a cause for the inception of this forum!

You have repeatedly said that this forum will act as an impartial conduit for the free and uncensored expression of opinion and ideas. When did that change, when someone disagreed with you?

razorguy

PS. I'm no new guy. I've always been here.
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

razorguy wrote:
PS. I'm no new guy. I've always been here.
I know.
Sitting in the morning sun
I'll be sitting when the evening comes
Watching the ships roll in
And I watch 'em roll away again
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

I am no pot stirrer, but I side with Chris Moss's reservations about this or any forum showing a clear allegiance with, or an unbalanced support for, any retailer. I would have no objection to seeing the other thread deleted entirely, except that the original review of the brush would have to be deleted as well. What is unfortunate is that the thread started out as a review of a product, pure and simple, which is exactly what this or any other wetshaver forum is intended for, among other things. It only turned ugly after your rant, Joel. It was your own personal bias, and your inability to keep that bias in check, that caused the blood to boil. Personally, I have no feeling in the matter of who sells the brushes. I have researched the Rooney posts on this board, and the only thing that is clear is that Charles had been in touch with Rooney since July, and that he hoped to carry the brushes. There is no mention that he is the only person in this country who had his brain picked by Sabini, or that he was promised exclusive distribution of Rooney. You want to talk about dark hours? This is a dark hour, since one of this own board's moderators has shown a clear bias, and chose to start bad blood flowing. You will have to do a lot of damage control now to get the spirit of this board back, and to undo damage that you yourself inflicted. And something else to keep in mind: for all of the allegations of WetShavers being a contentious place, I have seen none of this nonsense over there.
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Post by VinceFX »

Hey guys,

I have read everything that has transpired (regarding the Rooney thread) and I have a few thoughts.

Firstly, everyone is entitled to their opinions and have the right on this board to express them. I only ask that they do it in a manner that is respectful. This is gray area as there are varying levels of respect of course :-) If this criteria can't be met, then the moderators have the right to lock the thread. Deletion might even be called for in some extreme cases though this situation isn't even close to qualifying for that type of action in my mind.

Secondly, I would like to think that on the Rooney thread everyone was given a fair chance to say their part. I don't think that locking it has really censored any communication. Razorguy, you might feel this way but from what i can see you got your fair share of thoughts into the thread :-P

Thirdly, about the whole Rooney topic...I want us to take a step back. There are two categories of issues here. One is the brush itself that was reviewed by Chris. The other is the issue of Rooney business practices. Going forward let's try our best to keep these seperate.

Basically, I still want gents to feel free to post reviews about Rooney brushes. This is afterall a wetshaving site dedicated to such things and as someone else mentioned, we are to be free of ties to vendors and such. We are an independent website where opinions can be freely expressed. Merchants benefit from this activity and information as a secondary result of our existence.

I encourage you all to keep these things in mind since Rooney will likely remain a hot topic for quite some time. For those of you who wish to comment on Rooney or their practices, please try to do this on threads that are seperate from their brush reviews. This is my recommendation and I'm not ordering anyone to do anything.
:::Vince:::
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Post by jvan »

Chris the Patriot Fan,

I nominate you for having the neatest avatar I have ever seen. My very favorite motivational speaker who lived in a van down by the river. I realy miss the guy, he was one of a kind.

John
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

jvan wrote:Chris the Patriot Fan,

I nominate you for having the neatest avatar I have ever seen. My very favorite motivational speaker who lived in a van down by the river. I realy miss the guy, he was one of a kind.

John
LOL. Thank you sir. I miss the guy myself, he was a genius.
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Post by hedonist »

razorguy wrote:Joel


PS. I'm no new guy. I've always been here.
Ummm, no you havent, you have 6 posts beginning with the first you ever made in the Rooney brush thread. You clearly joined to stir the pot. While I choose not to take sides in this matter on the brush issue, I will state my opinion on your presence here. It's instances like this that made me leave the wetshavers forum, people like you just join the forum to start trouble. You are probably someone associated with Rooney, Classic shaving or some party related to this merger and saw things not going your way and decided to stir the pot. This is not to say I would not like to hear a devil's advocate point of view to what Joel stated but not from someone who's first comments on this forum are on this issue.
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Post by divotmax »

Hi;

It's amazing to me how anyone can get away with making slanderous remarks about a vendor or a business with nothing more than unsubstantiated comments. It's obvious that nobody knows the real, or whole, story about what or how business decisions were made regarding Rooney brushes; and why would anyone think that information would be released to idle inquirers.

I also resent anyone assuming martyr status by claiming to be in the minority of those who support "honesty", integrity", etc., and insinuating that everyone else is not.

It's apparent than a person who is an arrogant jerk on one forum also gets away with it on another. I believe it is a total of three forums now. If I were a vendor, I would also close the door on the guy.

I also agree that it's unfortunate that the one individual who started the whole mess with unsupported accusations, which precipitated even more lynch mob posts, then slammed the door on further discussion.

So much for gentlemanly behavior.

BobS
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Post by ARenaissanceMan »

I hate to play devil's advocate but what if negotiations with Charles and Rooney just fell apart. It happens all the time. In business its money first and friends second. Granted, this guy who runs Rooney sounds like a complete and total prick, but since none of us know anything close to the true story then its hard to judge.

As far as the thread goes, Razor you've just got to let it go man. Its a discussion, simple as that. Joel has every right to do what he feels is best. It may not be right but its just something you've got to live with. If you really want to show those in the wrong, purchase a Rooney from CS and post a review of it. Other than that, ladies, I think we all need to grab our tampon strings and give them a good pull. Sounds like they've been wedged up there a bit too tight.
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Post by razorguy »

clark,

I agree with you on several points. It is time to move on with regard to the Rooney non-issue. In time I expect that all of the details we don't know today will come out.

I may or may not buy a Rooney brush as you suggest. Whether I do or don't the decision will be made on the merits of the product, not on an uninformed decision I felt bullied into arriving at to please someone else. If I do buy one I may very well post pictures of it, it seems unlikely that anyone else will be doing so.

Where we disagree is that Joel does not have the right to squelch disagreement with his opinion - Not after all the noise he's made about this forum's existing for this very purpose and as an alternative to other fora. Especially so since he enjoys "moderator" status with the ability to lock, delete, or ban that with which he personally disagrees. I also caught his threat of not having "taken action yet" I hope you also did. I suspect that when I disappear you'll all know why!

Either this forum is open or controlled, either we're gentlemen or we're not. We do have the right to choose but but how do we know what to choose when the rules seem to change with the mind of the moderators?

razorguy
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Post by bernards66 »

Gentlemen, I was not going to post at any length on the Rooney topic, and in a sense, I'm still not going to. It would simply be too long, and I don't have the energy to type pages and pages, and that's what it would take. As some of you know, I've been zealously pursuing these brushes for quite awhile, four years perhaps, or a little longer. I've talked to quite a few merchants at length, as well as a few others who had knowledge of either the Rooney brushes, and/or what was going on with the company. And it IS a long and tangled tale. But basically, Rooney has been exploring re-entering the US market seriously for at least two years. Several merchants were encouraging them to do so. Their appearance was delayed by several misfortunes that were beyond their control, not least of which was that of a certain gent who absconded with their stock, and money. They were forced to temporarily declare bankruptcy because of it. There were other pieces of bad luck as well. But intermittenly during this time, they continued in contact with a few interested merchants in this country. I am not privy to what their ultimate reasons were for deciding to go with Classic Shaving, but that had always been one possibility. Anyone that would like more specific details on the saga certainly could call Charles, but I'd suggest that one call Ray as well, and perhaps most of all Scott at Cambridge Chemists. His shop handled Rooney brushes in the past, they go way back with that concern. Anyone who would like to discuss this further, with me, is free to PM me. I first started mentioning Rooney brushes on Wetshavers quite awhile before this forum even began, so Charles was far from the first one to bring the subject up ( although he most definately was interested in bringing in their brushes, and he and I discussed it at that earlier time ). Anyone is free, of course, to continue to believe that Charles " got shafted ", and those gents, presumably, will not be interested in considering a Rooney brush, and that's okay. Personally, I don't see it quite that way. I hope, in future, to be able to post my impressions of these brushes for anyone who's interested, and those who are not, will, I trust, simply ignore the post. Regards, Gordon
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Post by Sam »

i dont know what to believe, to be honest with all of you. i have not been a member as long as many of you. i did read of charles' interest in carrying rooney brushes and i do know the work he put into it. i have spoken with charles a few times and he has always been an upfront guy. but so has my experience been with ray, and with robert.

as an attorney. my training is such that i tell people, oral agreements and representations are not worth the paper they are written on. without an agreement of intention or understanding, charles really had no protection if he felt he was going to be the exclusive distributor of the rooney brushes. now common sense tells me that charles would not trumpet rooney or put in such hard work if he was not going to somehow have a business benefit by carrying the line, either exclusively or one of the few dealers.

i feel bad for charles, but at the same time, i am glad for ray. not at charles' expense, but if the rooney brushes are somehow going to be sought after and the quality is up there, well what a coup for ray.

this is a case where i would say, dont rush to judgment, that is, let the facts play out. maybe rooney will post, or someone will know something more than what we do know. however, if rooney knew that charles was expecting to be the exclusive distributor and never did anything to alert him not to assume such, and they allowed him to conduct his market research and that they themselves used it as some sort of market analysis, well, it may be permissible, but it certainly is morally wrong.

i just dont know what to say other than i feel bad for charles from reading this. i do know that in my line, no good deed goes unpunished. even if i am doing something for free, i have to have a written agreement specifying what i am doing for free.

sam
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

Gordon and Sam: Thank you for two very sensible, well thought-out perspectives on this matter. I could not agree with either of you more, except that ulike Sam, I am inclined to view Gordon's take on the events as the more probable scenario.
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Post by qed-usa »

Gordon :

What Scott at Cambridge has to say, or Ray at Classic has to say, is irrelevent. The issue is the Sabini/QED connection. Only two people have the details regarding that connection, Sabini and me. If any one wants more details about this they can contact me.

Quite frankly, I don't think most chaps give a crap ... I have to keep reminding myself this is the Enron era.

Charles
Q E D
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

Well, that settles it. I need a break from this place. The environment of late has gotten worse than what WetShavers has been accused of. If I want a morality or ethics lesson, I will either go to church or a philosophy class. I don't need it here. See you all later, after this all blows over, and after I cool off.
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Post by Striveforsmooth »

I made one minor change and then resubmitted my most recent post. Don't quite have a handle on the edit function, but now it's what I wanted to submit in the first place.
Last edited by Striveforsmooth on Sat May 28, 2005 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Striveforsmooth »

I don't get it. I'm not going to enter the fray regarding the Rooney deal controversy, but what concerns me even more is how quickly so many people get so pissed off, how threats, both veiled and open are bandied about, how character assassinations are submitted agonizingly fast. Not to mention how fast the whole tenor and mission statement of the forum itself is questioned.

I think Vince's comment from a few posts back spoke very well to the situation in general. Sam and Gordon's posts were both reasonable, and Charles' understandable, given his position. I must also say, I know where Joel's coming from. He may have let emotion run a little too freely and I don't agree with locking the thread. Eventually, people would get tired of posting in it anyway...

But the point of my post is I still don't understand why it's come to this. Frankly, I don't see why people can't get angry, express whatever views they have on a subject, take a break, maybe shave!, and then get on with contributing to this forum. It amazes me they'd sour on the whole thing so quickly and leave.

No matter what side of the Rooney argument you're on, or not on, it's upsetting that it takes so little to get people so distraught.

(For what it's worth, I did join just a little while ago, but have been reading this and other sites extensively for many months. And I've read nearly every post alluded to in this and the Rooney review thread. I mention this only in the hope that you not think me a troll. Which I am not.)
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