Response to Shaveblog about the Shave My Face Forum Brush

What kind of shaving brush do you use? Tell us all about it!
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clownjuggles
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Response to Shaveblog about the Shave My Face Forum Brush

Post by clownjuggles » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:23 am

In response to Corey Greenberg.

The SMF brush is made in Germany. I fail to see how the cost would be more effective if it was made in china or not. Even Apple computer, Corey, the all american computer in our schools that you laud, itself is built in China and Taiwan and sent over. Certainly it is designed by Apple of California but some guy named for the sake of argument "Ping" certainly worked on it. They do a damn fine job. If Shavemac has a company that does it's work exclusively over there so be it. They are obviously doing a fantastic job! But, as I stated before there is no reason to suspect that the brush is made anywhere but Germany.

It is most assuredly cocobola wood. I went to my local exotic wood dealer that I buy my materials from and had him look at the brush. He has assured me it is cocobola. Yes the design was chosen by the forum, as a matter of fact. Joel didn't even suggest that design to the forum. It was found by one of our members. The photo had such a positive reaction that the design was submitted to Shavemac. They said they could duplicate the design in a unique way. Yes the wood looks different on the original site. Anytime you use a piece of wood that has burled and chosen a unique grain that will look different than what we received which is a with the grain made brush. I have no doubt in my mind that the original "pattern" brush that was used as a prototype was hand turned by Bernd. It is most likely that Bernd would use a pattern duplicating machine to trace the brush handle and have a machine that duplicated what it traced. Layman's terms Corey. You know when you lose a key to your house and have to have another made, they put it in a machine that traces the grooves. Exact same concept. Cocobola is a very dense wood. Six to Seven Brushes a day is entirely normal. Yes. We got the brushes for 120 dollars. The fact that Bernd probably has the machinery to duplicate the design is why the cost would be cheaper. This other site that the original concept was taken from costs $550. This is because he has to turn each handle individually himself on a lathe. I do wood turned items myself and such an item would be a 550 dollar item if i chose to do it myself. My time is worth that. And that after all is what it is all about. Time. The old axiom is true. Time is Money.

And, yes I am sure the badger came pre knotted. But you know what? 99% of most brushes that are sold for their price point that has been set at are. So is the hair that guy who makes the $550 brushes as well. Yes, I am sure it is silvertip badger. All badger hair comes from China if you forgot. There are approximently 3 firms that still harvest it and sort it out there. I think you would be suprised to find out how badger hair is, I truthfully don't care personally if my brush hair came from a badger ripped from it's hole in the ground, on a cold winter's night in the highest mountains in China on a blizzard in January, sedated and, shorn with a solid gold straight razor by a naked woman from the badger's nose or if it was shot walking down the street in Nanjing in a top hat and tails, or if it was farm raised with a bottle and slept at the foot of a bed. It is badger hair and yes all brushes shed hair once in a while, this is normal. Especially in the beginning. I have personally not seen one hair shed from my brush. It is definately a quality item.

And by the way, it is very easy for their to have been a lousy batch of finish mixture to have caused the finish to start to come off. And Bernd has agreed to rectify the issue and replace the brushes that do so. Finishes are a finicky item. This is why cars are painted in a sealed vaccum chamber with constant airflow to preseve the finish and prevent objects such as dust, dirt and other particles from getting under the finish and causing a situation that would impact the longevity of the paint.

As for whether Joel was terminated for the brush that is not the case. Joel and the forum parted ways under albiet stressful but amicable circumstances and is still a fine gentleman as has ever been dealt with. And if Joel did receive a part of the money that was from the brush. Which I assure you, he did not. I fail to see how you can have any say in that matter or cast the first stone. After all, I fail to see how it is any different from the money received to speak on behalf of a company when you review their product or make a mention of it. So, let's call a spade for what it truely is. A spade. It is a fine brush. Please feel free to try you hand at make one if you feel is a cheap knock off. Dig out that little swiss army knife you probably have and start whittling away, squeeze the wood oil from the tree bark and extract it from plants and animals yourself if you must, because I gather that is what it would take for you to consider a brush truely handmade. But don't disparage us for our brushes. But don't cry foul, that something is rotten in Denmark, if you have never met the royal family. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but get the facts straight.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.

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Austin
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Post by Austin » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:50 am

Peter, I just read the article. I wonder if you or Vince can send Bernd a link of this article. It certainly does not put Shavemac in a good light.

I am sure that Bernd as a business man will not appreciate the accusations that corey makes against his company. Shavemac is a fine company that makes quality products. I hate to see his company slagged by accusations and innuendos.

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Post by clownjuggles » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:55 am

Austin,

I will see what I can do. But Corey needs to get his facts straight that is my main concern.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.

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Post by nteeman » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:04 am

Corey doesn't deserve to be called a shavegeek, he shames all that truly are. He is merely an idiot who thinks he's a shavegeek!
-Neal (DE user since 1998)
I shave therefore I am


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jvan
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Post by jvan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:09 am

Wow! Corey is taking quite a beating here and for what? Expressing his opinion on all things shaving, a right that we all share and take advantage of each and every time we post here and elsewhere. Calling Corey names only demeans the writer not the recipient of the barb.

If you don't like what he says stop reading his blog! Apparently just about every poster here checks in with him on a daily basis or at least it appears so based on all the bashing taking place.

If has libelled Shavemac or Joel in any way I am sure that they will address the situation in due time.

Corey is a very talented wordsmith who has probably introduced more people to wetshaving than all of our forums combined. Let us not forget how many of us were singing his praises only a few months ago following his TV segment. By doing so he has aided all of us, the more shavers the more purchases from our favorite vendors. The added purchases enable the vendors to expand their inventories allowing us more selections when we want to buy. I don't see anything that he has done that has harmed us or wetshaving in general. Some of you get upset when he derides a purchase you have made, if you believe in the forum brush that you and I purchased his writing should not bother you. However, if you harbor doubts I can fully understand why you want to lash out at him.

A surefire cure for this malady would be to remove him from your bookmarks. Come on, admit it, most of us have his blog bookmarked.

Flame away.

John
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Post by Dave T » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:28 am

I agree with John. All of this rash, superficial, juvenile, nonsensical carping and namecalling is an embarassment. And, please don't throw the right to free speech at me. I'm not questioning your right to free speech. You have a right to spout nonsense and to speak rashly and superficially and immaturely. It gets real tiresome guys, and reflects really poorly on both you and this site.

Dave T

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Post by ARenaissanceMan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:39 am

jvan wrote:Wow! Corey is taking quite a beating here and for what? Expressing his opinion on all things shaving, a right that we all share and take advantage of each and every time we post here and elsewhere. Calling Corey names only demeans the writer not the recipient of the barb.

If you don't like what he says stop reading his blog! Apparently just about every poster here checks in with him on a daily basis or at least it appears so based on all the bashing taking place.

If has libelled Shavemac or Joel in any way I am sure that they will address the situation in due time.

Corey is a very talented wordsmith who has probably introduced more people to wetshaving than all of our forums combined. Let us not forget how many of us were singing his praises only a few months ago following his TV segment. By doing so he has aided all of us, the more shavers the more purchases from our favorite vendors. The added purchases enable the vendors to expand their inventories allowing us more selections when we want to buy. I don't see anything that he has done that has harmed us or wetshaving in general. Some of you get upset when he derides a purchase you have made, if you believe in the forum brush that you and I purchased his writing should not bother you. However, if you harbor doubts I can fully understand why you want to lash out at him.

A surefire cure for this malady would be to remove him from your bookmarks. Come on, admit it, most of us have his blog bookmarked.

Flame away.

John
Well said =D>

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Post by Hugo » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:48 am

jvan wrote:Wow! Corey is taking quite a beating here and for what? Expressing his opinion on all things shaving, a right that we all share and take advantage of each and every time we post here and elsewhere. Calling Corey names only demeans the writer not the recipient of the barb.

If you don't like what he says stop reading his blog! Apparently just about every poster here checks in with him on a daily basis or at least it appears so based on all the bashing taking place.

If has libelled Shavemac or Joel in any way I am sure that they will address the situation in due time.

Corey is a very talented wordsmith who has probably introduced more people to wetshaving than all of our forums combined. Let us not forget how many of us were singing his praises only a few months ago following his TV segment. By doing so he has aided all of us, the more shavers the more purchases from our favorite vendors. The added purchases enable the vendors to expand their inventories allowing us more selections when we want to buy. I don't see anything that he has done that has harmed us or wetshaving in general. Some of you get upset when he derides a purchase you have made, if you believe in the forum brush that you and I purchased his writing should not bother you. However, if you harbor doubts I can fully understand why you want to lash out at him.

A surefire cure for this malady would be to remove him from your bookmarks. Come on, admit it, most of us have his blog bookmarked.

Flame away.

John
John,
Great post. I agree 100% with everything you've stated.

For those of you that do have a problem with Corey, think of it in terms of this: Corey, within a 5 minute piece on the Today Show, has essentially done what CAR has had wet(shaving) dreams about for the past 10 years. He started the wet shaving revolution that brought many of you here today. You may not like what he has to say now, but then stop reading his website. Delete it from your favorites list and be done with it.

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Post by ARenaissanceMan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:54 am

I just read this thing. 2 points:

1)Corey isn't the shave god many people made him out to be. Yes he is informative and interesting to many but, if you take him off the pedestal, then he is just a shmuck with a blog. That's it.

2)He is dead on with many of his comments. I complained about several of the same things and was flamed to high hell for it so I can see the fervent need to do the same to him. Really I haven't seen Joel or Bernd come up with rational explanations to any of the complaints or concerns as of yet. I think it's a bit unfair to label him the black sheep when many of his questions are logical and without answer.

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Post by Lionhoo » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:13 am

Okay, I just read through Corey's blog for today and I am truely amazed at how utterly wrong and misinformed this man is regarding the SMF brush. His numbered paragraphs of "what really happened" seem to be, at least in my humble opinion, nothing but a twisted version of how he WANTED this to turn out.

I will admit to seeing his story on Weekend Today and this was the impetus of my interest in "traditional" shaving.

Today, I am truely saddened that this unhonorable man has been the public face of traditional wetshaving. I hope he can live with his lack of knowledge and defamatory statements every time he looks in the shaving mirror for his search for that perfect shave - something that would be wasted on someone of his character.
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Post by Chris » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:29 am

1. Because of a longtime feud with Ray DuPont of Classic Shaving (yet another instance where the kid was banned, this time as a customer), he decided to start going out of his way to promote vendors and products which compete with Classic Shaving. Hence his over-the-top rave for the German company's shaving brushes, which Ray doesn't sell.
Joel was banned from dealing with Ray. You'll have to ask Joel about the circumstances. Corey's rant that Shavemac was chosen to do the custom brush because Joel has a disdain for Ray is laughable. QED also doesn't sell these brushes...is this considered disdainful towards Charles? Those who know SMF and Joel know that ain't true.
2. Taking the hurt-Ray game even further, the kid began talking up the idea of a custom ShaveMyFace brush exclusive to forum members only, and claimed to have the German company's agreement to custom make whatever brush design the forum members voted on.
How is this hurtful to Ray? I still don't get it...what the hell does it have to do with Ray? I respect Ray and have ordered from him several times. He's a great retailer, but this really has nothing to do with him.
3. After many weeks of plodding debate, the brushmaker tells the kid, "Look, enough is enough -- here's the design we'll make for you guys, and we'll stick an engraved medallion on the base so it'll look really custom."
Ah, no. Anyone who has been watching this knows that isn't how it went down.
4. The kid suddenly announces to the voters that he's "discovered" an even better looking design than what they'd all agreed to, and lays it on thick about how this will be the greatest brush of all time, and the greatest price for a genuine silvertip brush they'll ever witness. The vote is discarded and everyone falls into line behind the "winning" design.
"The Kid" didn't discover the design. I believe Robofunk did. Corey's complete disregard of the facts negates both items 3 and 4 on his list.
5. The brushes are mass-produced in China, shipped to Germany, and then reshipped to the US.
Any proof of this? or is this just "Make a baseless accusation" day?
6. Despite heartfelt denials, the kid makes money off every brush he's able to get a SMF forum member to buy. This explains why he was so adamant that all the orders go through him. After all, if you're getting a cut, you need to know how many orders there are.
This, as far as I know, isn't true. I believe the links went through him simply because he was a conduit with bernd for the entire operation.


I don't read Corey's blog, unless someone tells me to check it out. Everytime I do check it out, it thoroughly pissess me off, but it also saddens me, for I once looked up to him. To see him totally lose control and make such baseless accusations is mind-boggling to me.
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Post by Austin » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:19 am

I'm sure corey is just sitting back and laughing at the uproar he has caused here. Oh well, time to move on.

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Post by mike » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:44 am

6. Despite heartfelt denials, the kid makes money off every brush he's able to get a SMF forum member to buy. This explains why he was so adamant that all the orders go through him. After all, if you're getting a cut, you need to know how many orders there are.
This makes no sense at all. Let us assume that every member of SMF e-mailed Joel and received the special Shavemac site. Let us further assume 300 members changed their minds and did not order the brush (remember, we ordered through the Shavemac site, not through Joel). How is Joel guaranteed his "cut" when he doesn't know how many members actually followed through with their stated intent to purchase a brush? Apply logic to the situation gents, not emotions.
Mike

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Post by Blue As A Jewel » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:03 am

Wow! Corey is taking quite a beating here and for what? Expressing his opinion on all things shaving, a right that we all share and take advantage of each and every time we post here and elsewhere. Calling Corey names only demeans the writer not the recipient of the barb.
Well put John.

The only ones that really know what went down are Joel and Bernd.

Do I feel bad or ripped off for the $'s paid for this brush? - No.

Do I feel that the brush works? - Yes it works very well. It blows the doors off my Vulfix 2236.

Do I feel this is a special, handcrafted heirloom piece of work? - No.

Overall, I don't care one way or another what the background of this brush is - I enjoy it and have been getting great shaves by using it. My problem - the part that picks at me - is that I could have cared.

I'm also surprised the guy who had the original design isn't all over this.
- Ravi -

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Post by ARenaissanceMan » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:05 am

blueasajewel wrote:I'm also surprised the guy who had the original design isn't all over this.
So am I. I never could understand how that slipped through.

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Post by clownjuggles » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:04 am

Gentlemen,

I received this in an email from Joel. He wanted to remind everyone in addition that:

It was agreed upon that the orders/links go thru me to insure
only forum members were able to purchase the brush. If we simply gave
Bernd a list of forum members, then posted the link publically, the
link would be passed around, and many gents would try to purchase the
brush, without being member, or even knowing of our website. This
would be quite a pain for Bernd, to have to go thru and check each
order and make sure it was a member - then go thru and cancel the
order, not accept the credit card info, etc etc.
Hope this helps.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.

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Post by Sam » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:16 am

that is what joel told all of us. i get sick of reading about corey. id just as soon see no more posts and this topic gets buried. we know what happened, and so why do we need or care about his comments. im gonna talk with austin, since we are of like minds

now, austin, about that . . . . .

sam

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Post by Johnnie » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:19 am

uy yuy yuy. if you have any issues with corey please email him. we have to much other drama here. we dont need to add more wood to the fire. bernd and joel are grown men and im sure they can handle themselves.

if you like your brush, great. I love mine.

if you dont, then send it back and have it corrected ( i know some of you already have).

lets move on and talk about something more constructive. :P

johnnie
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Austin
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Post by Austin » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:33 am

Agreed

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Post by honkdonker » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:25 pm

Ah, this is absolutely hilarious. There is no defamation or any such thing going on, in my opinion. It is all about using the internet to "troll" and get people's dander up. Is it worth it?

Someone claimed that this fellow is the "public face" of traditional shaving. Balderdash. No one is the public face. Quite frankly, no one in day to day life really "cares" about shaving except for the people who frequent these types of forums, and those shaving guru luddites that do not use computers but yet are passionate about shaving.

How many people do you think read that blog? Seriously, I doubt very very few do, far less than frequent this site and other similar sites. To the average man, shaving is not interesting at all, and no one besides a few will waste their valuable time reading about it, despite what we think about it ourselves.

Let's all have a good laugh, have a big sigh, and carry on.

Thanks.

PS. I do have to say that this thread was an interesting diversion from the regular discourse in here.

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