ROONEY shaving brushes are coming!!

[Sinatra]

Don't remember where I herd it but I beleive that City of London Brushworks was a favorite of poet/imperialist Rudyard Kipling.

Pat

[bernards66]

Bastida, No, actually, I had more then one firm in mind, when I wrote the above. Yeah, the quote of mine, that you mentioned, was my take on a few of the original photos of the Shavemac XXL brushes, posted by Bob, on Wetshavers, and a little later, by Joel, here on SMF. Also the verbal descriptions. At the time, several knowledgeable members wondered how it could be, at that price. I think that we may have solved that riddle, in so far as, production costs could be lowered by using a faster semi-machine manufacturing process, and by, perhaps, having them made somewhere outside Europe. FWIW, the bristle in the SMF brushes doesn't appear to be quite the same as in those XXL ones, but that's just my opinion. The practice of bleaching bristle tip is quite wide spread, many firms do it, at least at times. But, unlike Vulfix, many either deny it, or simply ignore questions regarding the practice. With authentic upland silvertip, like the Plisson HMW or these new Rooney Finest brushes, the bristle is natural, that's the way it really looks. But with mid-grade, and upper mid-grade bristle, bleaching is not uncommon. As I said above, this doesn't effect the performance of the brush. Regards, Gordon

[bernards66]

Pat, You probably saw it on that South African site, Olde English Shave Shop. That's Bob Landsdowne. It's a long story, I've gone into it on a few prior posts, both here and at Wetshavers, in the past. Regarding Kipling, who knows. But it certainly wouldn't be surprising. During his day, Rooney's reputation was very high. Regards, Gordon

[bernards66]

English, Yeah, it could be them, or one or two other German makers, whose names escape me at present. The brush in the photo, may, or may not be bleached, but in any case, you can see the difference between this, and the picture of that Rooney Finest, that Kevin posted, or the Plisson HMW on the atkinson ( Canada ) site. If you look at that German brush, you'll notice that the bristle looks more like, say, a Kent BK. That real ultra grade upland type bristle is quite distinctive in appearance ( and feel, if you can get ahold of one ). Regards, Gordon

[Bastida]

Hello Gordon, thanks for the explanation. But there aren't that many brush manufacturers out there, that's why I thought you were referring to Shavemac

I wasn't trying to polemize at all. It's just that so many of your, er, intuitions regarding the Shavemac brushes have been proved true that I thought that that comment may be another one.

About the SMF brushes, I've only seen them in pictures, but I concur with your opinion that the bristle looks different than that of the XL-XXL. By the way, I dont' know what is the criteria for the XL/XXL labeling. My brush is an XL and is as big (knot, lenght...) as some of the XXL brushes.

Regards,
Bastida.

PS: that quote of you that I referred in my previous comment wasn't taken from The Wetshavers or from any Joel tread, but from here.

[honkdonker]

It will be interesting in seeing how these brushes perform. To me, they look very similar to any of the other offerings from Savile Row, Vulfix, Simpson, etc. Since there are only very few varieties of badger hair, I can' see how these are going to be any more special than some of the other brushes. That being said, I recognize that this brush company may be one of the oldest around, and that in itself holds some value. I wonder after the initial rush just how many of them will continue to sell at such, in my opinion, an inflated price point, unless they prove to be noticeably more worthy than other lesser priced brushes, as non wetshaving fanatics probably won't shell out such large sums when they can get possibly the same value from other products.

That being said, perhaps Rooney and its vendors will attempt to sell the first batch at inflated prices to those who really covet them, and then lower prices in an attempt to sell more of them to the masses.

Now how is THAT for an attempt at market analysis.

Thanks.

[bernards66]

Honk, Well, that could happen. At this point, maybe a little 'historical' perspective would help. 'Rooney' first appeared on the shave forums ( Wetshavers, SMF did not yet exist ) when I started mentioning them, whenever the topic of 'the best makers' came up. I knew about them, by reputation and history only. I'd never seen one, as far as I knew. But, because of what I did know, I felt that they should at least be mentioned, along with Simpson, Plisson, Kent, etc. Since no one else had heard of them, there was some curiousity, especially among the.....a.....ummm....those very drawn to trying many different shave products. It's not that anyone was suggesting that Rooneys were 'better' then all other brushes, simply that they were probably among the very best. Which, I am quite sure they are. So, personal preference, and comparative price, will be major factors here. The biggest thing, from my point of view, is that Rooney brushes are once more available to the serious wetshaver, adding to our quality choices. Regards, Gordon

[honkdonker]

I was not meaning to suggest that historically, they were not one of the better brushes. It still will be interesting to see how they stack up. I guess my perspective is that the materials that go into the Rooney and other brushes are pretty similar. Quite frankly, I can't imagine that Rooney's handcrafting and so forth will be or is better than the handcrafting available through other quality hand crafters, and their resins and badger hair are no better or no worse than other quality companies.

I am one who believes that there is probably not that much difference between the silvertip badger hair and the other more exotic names that some companies hype their products with. I am not saying that there may not be some slight difference, but in my view from reading what you folks who have used and own many brushes say, I have formed the opinion that there is little difference.

I agree with you, Gordon, that personal preference and comparative price are very important. I also believe that your ongoing discussion of Rooney on all of the boards that we frequent has been a major factor in prompting retailers to once again search out and begin to carry Rooney. For that, at least, Gordon, I think Rooney should present you with a free brush, as I personally believe that their re-emergence would not have happened, or at the least would have been delayed by some months or years, if you hadn't spoken as highly and knowledgeably about them as you have.

That being said, I hope that Rooney steps up to the plate with some top quality stuff, and that they and the vendors price their products accordingly. I mean, if we are to be at all realistic, $400 or $500 dollars for a bit of resin and a swatch of badger hair is really tremendously overpriced, in that I know from my own personal correspondance with Chinese badger hair suppliers that silvertip badger hair can be had for a minute percentage of that amount, despite vendors purporting that Manchurian or HMW or whatever new and exotic moniker that they use are so rare that they demand a king's ransom. I know from reading from those of you who have experienced all of these grades of hair that there is not much difference amongst the top quality products.

As a counterpoint, I don't begrudge retailers from making a nice profit if they do it ethically. I think those of us who have been around the forums for a few years realize that those vendors who act honestly and fairly have earned, and will continue to earn our trust, and those who try to take advantage of the market will not be as successful after they are found out by the knowledgeable wetshaver.

Thanks.

[Sinatra]

Gordon,

Yes I beleive that is where I herd that tib bit about Kipling, since Kipling was in the 19th century upper crust and Simpson, Rooney, City of London, etc. would be the logical choices because I doubt that an Englishmen such as himself would be using a French made Plisson.

Also about that South Africa company, I don't recall the name but whats the deal with it? They advirtised both City of London and Rooney brushes. I looked both up on the internet and they seem to have dropped off the radar so I was dubious of the sites claims and figured them to be knockoffs.

Pat

[bernards66]

Pat, Well, most of those brushes, on the Olde English Shaving Shop site, are obviously Vulfixs. There are/were one or two, however, that were neither Vulfix nor Kent ( nor German ). These were the curious ones. They may have been knockoffs, or they may have been old stock. I wish I could remember the threads and dates where I went into this a little bit. Basically, Bob Landsdowne used to work at Rooneys. He left, some say, with considerable bitterness, and apparently went to Capetown, where he opened that shop. In emails that I've seen, he tried to pretend that the really RA Rooney, in London, was defunct, and that HE, was, in effect, Rooney. By the way, in Kipling's day, it would not have been Simpson. Alexander Simpson offered up his first brush in 1919. Rooney goes back to the 1700s ( at least ). So, for Kipling ( through much of his life, anyway ), Rooney would have been a likely choice, or Coate's, or I suppose, Kent. And, I imagine that there were some other good makers, who are no longer in business. Even the Rooney archives, that survived that fire in the 1880s must be quite interesting. Regards, Gordon

[bernards66]

Honk, Amen. I can only add that I too know, via a different route, that the mark-up on the really top end badger bristle ( by the couple of firms that even offer it ) is indeed lavish. Regards, Gordon

[english_barber]

Hello,

I have always been very carefull about carrying Rooney brushes, they may have originally started in the 1700s but where have they been since we started retailling brushes in 1996? However I trust the UK agent for Rooneys without question, who I have dealt with since those early days of 1996 and also supplies TGS with a large proportion of our stock.

The Rooneys we currently stock are of a high quality and are a great handmade shaving brush. I have found that the range will compliment our existing offering, you can never offer enough English shaving brushes, and will fit within our current pricing structure.

The mark up on Rooneys is within our standard pricing structure, I am looking forward to a long relationship with both my suppliers and my customers both online and in the real store and would find it unethical to go for a "quick buck" and sell at a higher price knowing that it will be cheaper in six months time.

Prehaps now is the time for the Shavemyface outing to England, compare Rooneys, Simpsons, Vulfix, GB Kent etc and see for yourself....

Regards, Robert

[Blue As A Jewel]

SNIP

Prehaps now is the time for the Shavemyface outing to England, compare Rooneys, Simpsons, Vulfix, GB Kent etc and see for yourself....

Regards, Robert

Now we're talking! Of course we'll look forward to comparing some "Old Timer, 6X, Bishop's Tipple, and Speckled Hen"!

[english_barber]

So it's a secret meeting on Liddington Hill then....

Robert

[Blue As A Jewel]

We'll meet at the trig point with the memorial to Richard Jefferies.

Chris

I knew you two would start doing this!! I'm lost.