Simpsons vs. Vulfix vs. AOS - your thoughts.

What kind of shaving brush do you use? Tell us all about it!
JackieMartling

Simpsons vs. Vulfix vs. AOS - your thoughts.

Post by JackieMartling »

I like my AOS silvertip pretty well, but after reading more on the functional characteristics of the best brushes out there, I am thinking I probably could have done better for the money. For about $20 more, I could have gotten a Simpsons Polo 8 Super or a Vulfix #38, and for $30 less, I could get a Vulfix #40. Both Vulfix models are gargantuan compared to the AOS, whereas the Simpsons is maybe 15mm taller.

So, my question is, if I decide to return the AOS, would it be worth the extra cash to get a good (but not top) Simpsons, or should I save a bit and go for the Vulfix #40? (The #38 is just too big for my taste.) How do Vulfix compare to Simpsons? Charles Roberts would tell you that nothing comes close to a Simpsons, but I have heard others say that a Vulfix will give you comparable results at a fraction of the price. For those of you who would advocate Simpsons, which models would you recommend in the range of $200 - $250? What are the appreciable differences between the Polo, the Chubby and the Persian Jar lines? And what's up with the Manchurian? I have not found that listed anywhere.
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clownjuggles
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Post by clownjuggles »

Jackie,

I have not owned a AOS brush. Let me preface by saying that. I would say the vulfix are the best value and quality. I have seen some vulfix brushes in the stores and I have also owned a simpson shaving brush.

I would say of all my brushes the simpsons is the most uncomfortable brush i own. The hair is not silvertip. Silvertip is supposed to be the softest and most luxurious hair their is. Yet according to certain retailers who shall remain nameless have been saying that the hair should scrub the face. The hair is VERY STIFF and Prickly. I have the persian jar and the reputation of the chubby and polo is that they are a stiffest bristle.

on to the subject of manchurian. No one who has spoken to simpsons feels it would be helpful to simpsons to post what they found out. it is my personal opinion that manchurian is purely a marketing gimmick. according to charles roberts a persian jar can't be manchurian since it can't accomadate the knot in the handle. what this says to me that what makes these "manchurian brushes lather is merely more hair.

Charles Roberts you have to remember is not infallible. He is a retailer marketing his products. Just take a grain of salt when you read those essays. They are very well written and are written to persuade.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

Peter, thank you for the valuable feedback.

Corey on Wet Shavers postulated that the AOS brush might be made by Vulfix. I certainly hope that is not the case, because if it is, then the AOS is equivalent to a Vulfix #375, which Ray sells at Classic Shaving for $60. The AOS goes for $180. My stomach churns just at the thought of it. I clearly did not do my research adequately prior to plunking down the plastic for this thing.

I hear Kents are VERY soft. I honestly don't know if I want soft or stiff. I basically want something that works well. As much as I get turned off by the rhetoric and technocracy surrounding RMWS, I am leaning more toward that approach for lathering. Thus, I need a brush that will make the most out of the technique.

And a gold star goes to whoever can point me towards a brush that will not get COLD. The AOS is cold by the second pass, and it bums me out.

BTW, Peter, is that your testimonial featured on the Vulfix page at Ray's site?
Last edited by JackieMartling on Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by clownjuggles »

Nope! not my testimonial. I own a edwin jagger and a simpsons and I am the future owner of a saville row brush sometime in the next few months.

By the way,

Charles at QED occasionally has true silvertip vulfix in the shop. as far as heat goes. the hotter the water you start out with helps a lot. I suggest microwaving your water to the boiling point and taking it in to shave.

Also creams seem to hold heat better than soaps.

I merely said they were well written. I never said that I thought he made sense. I kept waiting for them to instill something that i could not get from watching my barber or talking to them. Didn't happen.

Call Charles at QED he knows his brushes.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

I merely said they were well written. I never said that I thought he made sense.

LOL! That's a very good point. Also, good suggestion about contacting Charles.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

What are people's thoughts on Kent? Specifically, the BK12 and BK8?
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Post by clownjuggles »

Jackie,

I had the oppisite experiance when i inspected a kent bk12. It is bigger than the vulfix 41. and the tips were way too stiff for me. I still think either vulfix or saville row are the way to go. Too many people get so obsessed with what name is on their brush. A bk12 is really really too big.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

I was looking at the size of, say, a Vulfix 40, 2236, or possibly a Simpsons Polo 10. I'm not after the name, just the quality. Whichever gives me the best lathering potetntial, water and heat retention, and durability is what I am after.
Last edited by JackieMartling on Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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clownjuggles
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Post by clownjuggles »

Jackie,

I would say go with the saville row equivilent of a vulfix 40. If you want true silvertip I believe that they can be ordered in a brush for a premium.
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

Peter, are you saying that the Vulfix and Savile Row listed as "Super" on Ray's and Charles's site are not real silver tip? If not, how would I go about getting real silver tip, and how much of a premium are we talking?
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Post by clownjuggles »

Charles,

You mentioned that you used to have a couple saville row that were ordered with silvertip. I dont' know if you still have any of them or what it would cost to order a brush with those criteria that people are looking for. I agree it is insane how difficult it is to find real silvertip.

Jackie,

Just for the record charles has never stated that his brushes listed as super were silvertip. Silvertip if you want to be picky is merely a description of color not of of the qualities of the hair. A lot of companies are bleaching their bristles. Silvertip is mainly used today like tea. You can buy tons of teas that are a green tea but you have to look for a real green tea. Does that make sense?
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

It makes sense. I guess that's what is so bewildering about it all. Most places I have seen equate Super with silvertip. My AOS brush says silvertip, but it doesn't look all that different from anything I've seen labeled as either Super or ever some Best. I don't suppose it ultimately matters to me whether or not it is ture silvertip. I mean, it would be nice if it were, but I'm looking for certain abilities in the brush itself. If the brushes labeled Super or silvertip (even those that aren't so-called "real" silvertip) deliver on performance and aren't outrageously overpriced, that's what I'm after. But the day I pay over $500 for a shaving brush is the day I either celebrate or check myself into the funny farm, for it means I've either gotten very rich or very crazy...or perhaps both.
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Post by clownjuggles »

Jackie,

A silvertip brush can be had for far less than 500. I am sure of that. Most of charles roberts brushes aren't that much and he is the highest price vendor i have seen so far when it comes to brushes. Save for that manchurian nonsense as far as i know. But that is what some people feel they need to have in a brush. They need to know that they have the most expensive brush out there to be complete. I seem to recall someone stating that the two most horrible words to be haunted by were "what if?"
Peter
"Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd
His skin was pale and his eye was odd,
he shaved the faces of gentlemen who never
there after were heard of again. He trod a path
that few have trod, did Sweeney Todd,
The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
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Post by VinceFX »

Of all the brushes mentioned...

Kent BK12, Simpson Super Polo 10, Vulfix 40, 2236, etc...

I would go with the Vulfix 40. I already have a Simpson Super Polo 12 (very stiff btw) and a Vulfix 377 (very soft). Of the two I am beginning to prefer the 377 for use on a daily basis. It is quite frankly the easiest to lather and feels better on my face. I now wish I had purchased the Vulfix 40!

Vince
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Post by qed-usa »

Peter -

Savile Row can be ordered with genuine silvertip but, depending on brush size, the price can be a bit hefty.

This is a tough conversation for any vendor to take on on a public forum.

No doubt most of you have seen heated discussions on other forums on the subject of badger hair.

I do not mind discussing this subject privately. And keep in mind my views are just that, my views. There are other vendors on this board ... or watching this board ... who will no doubt have different views. Gather all the information you can, then follow your common sense. Hogwash will sound like hogwash to those who analyze with common sense.

Remember "moutain-grown arabica" tells you little about the cup quality of coffee. The words sound like they should mean something yet how many arabicas have you experienced that tasted like the bottom of an ashtray?

Regards,
Charles
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Post by razor_boy »

Jackie,

I don't own a Simpson or AOS brush but I do own a Savile Row (SR-25) I am very happy with.

I have held and examined an AOS "silvertip" brush and through examination the brush did not seem to be up to the same quality standards as Savile Row. IMHO it surely did not justify the increase in price.

There is no doubt in my mind that Simpson at one time cinsistantly made the best brush on the market (and they MAY still). But I have read enough complaints on this forun and oters from men that have purchased Simpson brushes over the last 8 moths or so, that I now serious questions about their quality control.

At this point, I would not but a Simpson brush UNLESS I could handle and examine the specific brush I was going to buy BEFORE I purchased it.

Paul.
A Peach looks good with lots of fuzz but man's no peach and never was. ~ Burma Shave
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Post by Keef »

I love my AOS silver tip brush. It is soft, lathers wells and feels comfortable. I was told the Simpson brush holds more water, but after my first shave, the cream is cold, and I have to put some hot water in the brush to make it warm again. So even if Simpsons brush holds more, it won't keep the cream warm. I was going to get a Simpson brush in the near future but I am sticking with my AOS brush. I also love their Sandlewood cream more than anything else out there.
JackieMartling

Post by JackieMartling »

Joel, after doing some research, it seems like a bigger brush will hold more water and heat than a smaller brush. Also, according to Mr. Hype himself (i.e., Charles Roberts) the larger size Simpsons are more efficient at generating lather, and thus require less cream. Now, in here, I am reading the opposite. I had not considered the waste factor of having more cream than you can actually use for a shave, or that you will have to use more cream to get the lather you want. Right now, with my AOS, I find that it generates a great lather for the first pass. However, it gets cold and dries out, so that for the second pass I have to "recharge" it with hot water, which results in a thinner lather. To compensate, I end up using more cream to get it back up to par. So, unless I am doing something wrong, I don't see that the smaller brush is giving me greater economy.

It does, however, fit nicely in my hand. Which brings me to something else I may not be taking into account sufficiently. Perhaps my eyes are bigger than my hands. I have relatively small hands for a male (and that's all that's small, so don't go making any wisecracks) - I wear a size 7 ring and medium gloves - so perhaps the bigger brushes won't fit so well in my hand. I would like a brush that will balance performance and ergonomics well.

Chris, I only have two handles - JM here, and GiacomoHoldini on Wet Shavers. I don't know why I used two; just for variety, I guess. For some reason I was not getting notified of replies to this thread, so I just now came in here and read what you wrote about Kents. I e-mailed you prior to coming in here, so I apologize if you feel you've already said what you can in here. Still, if you want to write me back and add more, I am always open to feedback.
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Post by AceHarddrive »

I've been considering what kind of bowl to use with my cream. I'll bet a metal bowl, initially filled with hot (up to boiling) water and allowed to sit for a bit, would retain that heat while you strop up your razor. Just pour out nearly all of the water, dip into your cream and lather away in the bowl. Maybe you could let your brush soak in the hot water at first. The metal bowl would retain the heat and keep the lather (and brush) warm. Just an idea.

~Tim :wink:
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Post by Guest »

As far as which brush? One should consider if they want and are willing to pay for true silvertip. I have read enough from those in the industry that I trust, including Charles and Ray, who agree that silvertip badger is superior to best badger. That being said, I have a large best badger brush that is terrific. I have used silvertip badger brushes before and I do believe silvertip is a better grade of badger - whether one is willing to pay the extra price is more of a personal issue. One can surely achieve a great wetshave with a best badger brush.

As far as I know, right now, there are two brush makers that produce off the shelf brushes in true silvertip; Plisson and Simpsons. But as already mentioned, the other good makers can and probably will be happy to provide you with their brush using silvertip badger.

Robert
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