Wanted: Free/Inexpensive Simpsons for a smattering of tests.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:31 pm

Joel,

You might want to narrow down your request for a specific range of brushes (Simpsons) and let us know what specific brush you are going to test against (Vulfix). Others might then have an idea of what type and grade you are looking for. It would be hard to part with my Chubby 3 for testing purposes but maybe not so hard for a lesser brush made by Simpson. I think the limiting factor will be the Vulfix model used in the test. In that Vulfix doesn't make a brush equal to the Simpson Chubby or Polo range (Super or Manchurian) these are necessarily eliminated from any test.

Regards,
Robert

clownjuggles · Post by **clownjuggles** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:40 pm

Robert,

One of the current concerns that I think joel might be attempting to clarify is that vulfix super and simpson super are really more closely related that most would think. (Joel feel free to correct me if i am wrong.) I for one don't even think that the simpsons brushes chubby or otherwise are true silvertip. I think that the hair is pretty much the same. There really are two camps as to what silvertip is. There are those who feel it should be stiff and scrub the face. And there are people like me who feel that silvertip should be the softest bristle out there. A lot of makers are bleaching their brushes so there is really no easy way to tell.

Coche_y_bondhu · Post by **Coche_y_bondhu** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:59 pm

Hello Joel,

Sounds intriguing. I like to test things. Is there a torture chamber waiting for these brushes?

Can't help you with bristle volunteers for your testing, but do keep us posted on progress. Don't forget photos

.

Cheers,
Richard
Dallas, TX

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:43 pm

I think testing/comparing is good. Since I have already done so myself I am pretty sure of the results. But I have my opinion and everyone else has theirs. As far as concerns regarding silvertip; if someone chooses not to believe something that is their perogative, but it certainly isn't cause for concern. The Chubby and Polo Supers are silvertip, plain and simple. I know because I can look at the brushes and tell, especially when compared with the best badgers I have. Vulfix does not make silvertip brushes. This was stated categorically by the president of Vulfix. Is silvertip necessary? Depends on what one wants and/or needs. Ray with ClassicShaving, as do many others in the field, says that silvertip is much better than best. I believe him and I know it to be true, also from experience. If you want to test/compare a Vulfix 41 I suggest you use a Simpsons Duke in best or possibly a Harvard 4 or 5 in best. That would be a fair comparison I think. I like Vulfix brushes, especially the 41, but it is not in the same class as a Chubby 3. Of course it doesn't cost near as much either.

Regards,
Robert

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:46 pm

Forgot one thing:
Peter, yes, I have heard from a couple of sources that Vulfix may indeed bleach the badger. I do not know this myself or as being factually true so I will leave it at that.

Robert

drP · Post by **drP** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:54 am

Hello gents,

As Joel already knows i have numerous brushes, from the most important brush makers: Simpsons, Vulfix, Kent, Plisson; they're all in Super, Silvertip, Manchurian or High White Mountain Badger; i have used all these brushes over the last 16 months and i use a diiferent brush each day; from this experience i can draw the next conclusions:

-there's no difference in capability of building a decent lather; they all perform equally well imo
-the roughest/stiffest are the Polo and the Chubby
-the softest/most flexible are Kent and Vulfix
-the Manchurian and HMW (Plisson) are in between, but are the whitest
-the most densely filled/packed are the Polo and the Chubby, ex aequo the Manchurian, finally the Vulfix and Kent

In my opinion there is absolutely no need to spend the extra money on a very expensive brush only for reasons of performing/functionality;
best value for money imo is the Vulfix 40 or 41; the reason i've got so many brushes is only for collecting reasons (or OCD, Joel....?)

Regards, Peter

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:55 am

Isn't that rather prejudging the results? This would limit the outcome to no more than, at best, the Vulfix being equal to these best badger brushes?

Chris,

Perhaps I am prejudging a bit but only because I have already determined what is the best brush for my money using my own criteria.

The outcome may already be prejudged anyway, afterall we already know Joel has strong leanings one way and strong dislikes the other way.

I would still like to see a comparison between a 41 and a Duke 3. I suspect the 41 might prevail but I don't have a Duke to compare it with.

Regards,
Robert

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:39 pm

Joel, The means for an interesting comparison are really near at hand. While I agree that, since you'd be using your Vulfix 41, the Simpson Chubby3 Best would be the most direct comparison. Both brushes are very close to the same size and configuration, and, as stated by the respective makers, are presumned to be similiar grades and types of bristle. But because of this, I don't know how interesting, or informative such a comparison would be. All that I think you'd discover is that 1) the Chubby is more densely packed, and 2) in the US, it costs about $100 more. However, comparing the Vulfix 41 with a comparable sized genuine silvertip would provide a bit more of a contrast. Since Vince is using his 377 mostly these days, maybe he be willing to lend you his Polo 12 silvertip for the comparison? Although the Polo has a longer handle, it's knot size is very close to that of the 41. What I think that you'd discover here, is that, altough both brushes work extremly well, they are quite different in 'feel'. They are clearly different types of bristle, and you could compare the properties of each. I do believe that Peter is entirely correct when he says that any of the really good brushes will create an equally good lather, but the comparison of the upper end brushes is not about utility, but rather about subtle differences, and personal preferences. Regards, Gordon

Post by **VinceFX** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:44 pm

Hey fellas,

I probably would have been quick to offer up my Polo for such tests if it weren't for my discovery of the Rival water boiler. Now I find that the performance of my Polo has truly been unlocked with the inclusion of near boiling water in my shaving routine. I fear I cannot be without this brush for any extended period of time. Hmmm...unless you guys really try to talk me into it...perhaps.

Vince

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:19 pm

Vince, Come, come. Surely you can part with it for just a little bit, for Joel, your peer and co-founder of this forum, as well as for the edification of us all. Knowing you as I do, I'm quite sure that you wouldn't selfishly clutch on to that Polo, thus causing Joel's noble experiment to be still born? Just pretend you didn't discover that kettle business, take up your 377, and send the Polo along. I'm sure that Joel won't dwaddle with it, and it will be back before you know it. ( I would stipulate though, that if Joel does run this comparison, that he do it without the kettle, very few of us boil water to use shaving, so doing so would provide results possibly different then most of us would get ). BTW, I tried the boiling water thing this AM with my Plisson silvertip, and didn't notice any difference from my usual routine. Maybe I get somewhat hotter tap water then some of you? Regards, Gordon

Post by **VinceFX** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:32 pm

Gents,

I will ponder this some more and correspond with Joel via email IF I decide to send him my Polo.

I like the idea but I think I will have separation anxiety LOL.

Vince

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:16 am

Ah Joel, regretably my Plisson brush is of a considerably smaller size then the Vulfix 41, so it just wouldn't do, you see. But that Polo. just the ticket! Anyway, most of the heat centers around the Vulfix and Simpson debate, very few of us have Plissons (BTW, my is a European White, not the Manchurian stuff, it's pretty equivilant to Simpson's Super, the Plisson HMW was unique until the special order CR Manchurian Simpsons came along ). I've sometimes wondered if CR didn't wind up going to Simpson for something like this, once he actually saw the Plissons in Paris, and the example that Adam Mendelson showed him. A couple of years ago, he had barely even heard of Plisson, I brought them up to him at that time. He'd definately NEVER heard of RA Rooney. Really though, while the tests would surely be fun, and maybe informative to a degree, at the upper most end, slight nuances in measurable utility really isn't the issue. Peter's right, and he certainly has no axe to grind, cause he owns them ALL. Hey, maybe he should run some tests. Regards, Gordon

drP · Post by **drP** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:09 pm

As i said earlier on this thread: i really do not see any differences in performing abilities concerning latherbuilding and lathering itself on one's face. But, they're all in Super/Silvertip/ Manchurian/High White Mountain; ther's one exception:
the smallest brush , my Simpsons The Case, is in best badger and performs as well as my Polo Manchurian #14 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

But, this is an empirical judgment, and no exact scientific judgment in terms of lathervolume, lathertemperature, latherconsistency and so on.
Looked at brushes this way, one may observe differences, but, then again: what's the big deal if only the daily performance of a shaving brush is that wat counts???

Peter