"Massaging" Vs. "Painting" Lather Applic

JPDyson · Post by **JPDyson** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:49 am

Zot! wrote:Two bands tend to be bulbs, have spring to the loft and good flow-though for a great combination.

I never understood this, actually. I'd much rather have the backbone and spring distributed over a bigger area (like a fan) vs an almost sharp-feeling bulb. I think the bulb shape makes more sense with softer hairs, since it adds support the softer hair would require. Two-band doesn't need the help.

M6Classic · Post by **M6Classic** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:00 am

I for one always open the egg from the large end.

Buzz

franz · Post by **franz** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:24 pm

For all knot types, I use circular strokes to generate the lather, and painting motions to ensure it is applied evenly.

Fan, bulb, high loft, short loft -- it does not make a difference in how nice the resultant lather is.

JayTrek · Post by **JayTrek** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:36 pm

I only have one brush at the moment. Plan to add to that meager arsenal in the next couple of days (recommendations welcome...PM me).

But I, like Franz, use circular motions to build the lather on the face. Then as I finish spreading lather I use a painting motion to smooth it out and make sure I have complete coverage prior to mowing down the whiskers.

a-cut-above · Post by **a-cut-above** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:52 pm

Same here, regardless of brush type (dense or not), I start with circular motions and finish with painting strokes. I paid attention to this after this thread was started and I found I do spend more time painting than circling, but I start with the circular motions first.

OldSaw · Post by **OldSaw** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:22 pm

M6Classic wrote:I for one always open the egg from the large end.

Buzz

You know, the Big-Endians were quite a rebellious lot.

M6Classic · Post by **M6Classic** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:37 pm

OldSaw wrote:
M6Classic wrote:I for one always open the egg from the large end.

Buzz
You know, the Big-Endians were quite a rebellious lot.

Indeed we are. We all use brobdingnagian brushes, too. Bulbous, brobdingnagian brushes. French.

Buzz

OldSaw · Post by **OldSaw** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:01 pm

Mark,

I've actually been rethinking this myself over the past few months. Loading the brush is the one thing that I still use a swirl motion for, but only the tips with a fairly wet brush. I have never taken to the damp brush loading method and I believe it was responsible for the short life of my AOS badger brush when I spent about 6 months exclusively damp/dry loading.

I don't rotate brushes much, so I'm sorry I can't offer up much help. However, the two brushes I use most are an Omega 10049 boar brush, which is quite lofty and my fairly new Vulfix 2235 super badger.

Many years ago, when I taught myself to lather by trial and error, I was extremely abusive on my solitary Surrey boar bristle brush. I swirled and pumped to build lather right on the soap and applied with more swirling and finally smoothed things out with a few paint strokes. A quarter century later I still have that brush and still use it occasionally.

About five years later I got a badger hair brush and continued on with the same activity and life was good, even if my soap life was perhaps a bit short.

Then one day (about the same time as you) I discovered these wonderful shaving forums. I tried other lathering methods, but had a hard time breaking from my "dunk & stir" lather building method. I still think it is the most brush friendly if you want to swirl and build lather directly on the soap.

So after all these years and methods, I still fly by the seat of my pants sort of, as I still use an instinctive approach to making my lather. I am much less abusive on the brush and my soaps last longer. I simply wet my brush and instinctively shake out what I feel is excess water and load/build by just swirling the tips on the soap. Then I finish building the lather on my face with a combination of painting and swirling just the tips. I rarely ever mash the brush anymore.

My Surrey brush is about the shortest and least bulby brush that I have and I instinctively swirl that thing on my face. The Omega 10049 is the longest and splaying it on my face takes up too much real estate, so painting works out pretty good, with light swirling of the tips. The Vulfix 2235 is right in between and I mostly paint with this one.

I look forward to watching your new video.

river1 · Post by **river1** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:48 am

woodsrider wrote:Irrespective of loft shape, I find that some circular motions are helpful to initially get the lather to "pop." Thereafter, I use mainly painting motions with perhaps a few circular motions thrown in as necessary for lather generation.

I have never noticed whether loft shape (i.e., fan vs. bulb) matters.

I agree with Lynn and the scrubbing or circular motion pops the lather and better coats each whisker and a paint motion slaps a nice coverage on top for a really thick lather. My Kent brushes, H8,comes to mind as well as the Beaufort 6 as I am writing. Doug

mantic · Post by **mantic** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:56 am

Wow, based on the responses so far I clearly need to do more research.

--Mark

njpaddy · Post by **njpaddy** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:11 am

I like the massaging feel of a small, short-lofted brush. My current favorite is a 16mm Finest with a 40mm loft. It doesn't really bloom, so there's not much to paint with. With my 20mm brushes I find myself doing a circular motion for passes 1 & 2 and painting for 3 & 4.

numcks · Post by **numcks** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:53 am

Teiste wrote:
CMur12 wrote:Hi Mark -

My experience has been just the opposite, assuming that by "massaging" you mean the circular motions that most seem to use for face-lathering.

I lather in a bowl and paint the finished product onto a very wet beard because my skin doesn't tolerate on-site lathering. For me, a tall loft with medium density and easy flex does the most efficient job of lathering in a bowl and the gentlest job of applying the lather. Shorter-lofted, stiffer, and denser brushes don't work well for me; in fact, they seem to be what face-latherers seek.

- Murray
The same here.But I will also say that fan shaped ones works better with circular motion,while bulb shaped ones works better with painting strokes.

My observations are exactly aligned with this. Short lofted, fan shaped knots work best with circular swirling and face lathering. As the knot gets longer, less dense, and/or bulb shaped, painting gets more effective, although I never enjoy just bowl lathering and painting on the lather.

JPDyson · Post by **JPDyson** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:50 am

mantic wrote:Wow, based on the responses so far I clearly need to do more research.

--Mark

A couple of polls might be in order to draw out majority opinions, but much like anything else, you'll probably find quite a few that don't fit the curve.

Fido · Post by **Fido** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:07 pm

I've found from testing a very wide variety of brushes that it takes time to figure out the most effective way of using each one. So I couldn't come up with any general rules. Most often, I now lather in a bowl using light pressure and circular motions, then apply it to my face with to and fro painting motions, although I find it hard to resist a gentle swirl before painting over to finish. Most of my brushes work well this way.

Best of luck with your research Mark!

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:13 pm

What about the "dabbing" and the "inverted Gordon-Moss" methods? Don't forget the Simpson method where you hold out the pinkie finger while lathering, or the Plisson method where the brush surrenders when you use tabac....oh never mind.

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:34 pm

My reply to the OP is that there isn't a specific "better" method. I find myself using both types of motions, as necessary parts of the symphony.

Araner · Post by **Araner** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:53 pm

brothers wrote:My reply to the OP is that there isn't a specific "better" method. I find myself using both types of motions, as necessary parts of the symphony.

Yeah, the brush goes where the lather takes it
Up and down, round and round, just can't fake it
The end result is thick and creamy
For a razor rinsed with water that's hot and steamy
The glide of steel the slicing of whiskers
So you're face looks good when eating snickers!

Sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself

Mike

DavidB · Post by **DavidB** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:01 pm

njpaddy wrote:I like the massaging feel of a small, short-lofted brush. My current favorite is a 16mm Finest with a 40mm loft. It doesn't really bloom, so there's not much to paint with. With my 20mm brushes I find myself doing a circular motion for passes 1 & 2 and painting for 3 & 4.

Where did you get your 16mm finest brush? I need a very small knot to re-fit a vintage Ever-Ready brush, and also want it to be plenty soft on the tips.

Dave

Bestarrkin · Post by **Bestarrkin** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:01 am

DavidB wrote:Where did you get your 16mm finest brush? I need a very small knot to re-fit a vintage Ever-Ready brush, and also want it to be plenty soft on the tips.

Dave

TGN has 16mm finests in its site.

river1 · Post by **river1** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:14 am

njpaddy wrote:I like the massaging feel of a small, short-lofted brush. My current favorite is a 16mm Finest with a 40mm loft. It doesn't really bloom, so there's not much to paint with. With my 20mm brushes I find myself doing a circular motion for passes 1 & 2 and painting for 3 & 4.

Mark, I am not trying to put too fine a point on this thread but it provoked thought while lathering rather than my usual daydreaming. My painting motion after the first light scrub rotation includes a wave motion that seems to plaster a nice top coat of lather. I also dip the tips of the loaded brush in the hot water cup on the first pass that feels really good even though my face is wet.