Savile Row again, again...3x2x?

[TRBeck]

Gents, one would think that I would already know the answer to this, given the number of brushes that have passed through my hands in the past six years. But, here goes:

I am looking to get another Savile Row. The 3122 is my sure thing, always there, always the same. But I never have loved the handle. The knot is perfect. On the other hand, the 3824 handle is perfect. I have never used a 3824; I just like the look of the handle and the feel of Persian Jar shapes generally. I am worried that the 24mm knot will be too large and edge away from the backbone/plush balance of the 22mm knot (which is actually closer to 24-25 in my experience), plus the 3824 is more expensive and nearly always out of stock (like right now). The 3722 seems like a nice compromise - ergonomic and simple Persian Jar/Alibaba type shape with a knot that I know works for me. The handle is a bit taller, but I'm thinking it would be fine since I like the Emillion handle and some of the big boar handles. Long handles are fine, just not chunky (which is why the 3122 has never quite been right for me). So I'm looking for input. Chris, I know you have the 3722. Several guys here have the 3824, and I know a few of you gentlemen are full-blown Savile Row aficionados who could probably give me lots of help. As an aside, the 3322 is also on the table; I like that handle a good bit, too, and will probably get that over a 3122 unless superstition gets the best of me and I return to the brush I know best (I have owned 4 of them... ). This will be my only badger in the short-term, although I may eventually get a 24mm Shavemac silvertip fan to replace the one I prematurely parted with a couple of years back. So, what am I ordering from Charles?

[brothers]

Tim, if I had one of the ones you're curious about, I'd be happy to let you try it for a few days. Regardless, it sounds like you're close to getting a new brush. Good luck!

[rsp1202]

Tim, the 3722 sounds like it could work for you. (I believe at one time that was Charles brush of choice, for whatever that's worth.) If you like the handle shape, go for it. The 3824 handle is nice, but anything larger than a 24mm knot runs too large for me, especially an SR with its splay and bloom. The 3322 handle looks chunky and stubby. I'm actually more surprised you've come to terms with bulbs; always thought of you as a fan man.

The 3122 handle fits me pretty comfortably, and its knot is within my comfort zone. I just today ordered another one (I think you're still ahead of me on that score) after going through some really nice Thaters, Shavemacs, M&F's, and synthetics -- so you're not the only one heading back to the future. Welcome home.

[pausted]

Tim, I certainly know that this will muddy the water, but I just bought a 2122 a month or so ago. I was looking for a brush that would fall somewhere between my boar brushes and my one silvertip. I could not have been more fortunate in my choice. I used the best badger Savile Row for a month straight with both creams and soaps. It is without question the best brush I have ever owned. Right now I'm now using my WD 24 mm silvertip and it seems very floppy compared to the SR 2122. You might consider a "best" in your search. Just a thought.

[drmoss_ca]

I'm a bit out of this particular loop. Are Savile Row brushes still Shavemacs in disguise, or are they reckoned to be sourced elsewhere these days?

Chris

[TRBeck]

Chris, yes, they are still Shavemacs in disguise, although some will say the Savile Row silvertip are a it more plush - denser and softer-tipped - than the silvertip from Shavemac, perhaps a slightly more stuffed spec on the knots or something.

As for the Best, I am tempted, but I assume it ill be similar to the Shavemac finest, though again those in the know claim they are more dense and a bit softer. I have definitely consider this option, though.

Ron, I was hoping you'd chime in. It seems the 3x22 is inescapable for you and me. I have of late rediscovered my love of the Omega Pros, and I think a nice silvertip in the mix would indeed make me feel at home and help me enjoy the shaves in a way I hadn't the past few months. Omega Pro and Savile Row/Shavemac silvertip; the enduring workhorses in my den.

I await further discussion, gents. Maybe I ought to just email Bernd, tell him what I like about my Savile Rows, ask for a Shavemac fan that will yield a similar vibe, and see what he says. No more millimeter minutiae. Just ask him to make me something that will do what I want. Sigh. I haven't bought any new shave gear in well over a year prior to the past two weeks; here's hoping this purchase process comes and goes quickly.

[rsp1202]

I've had Shavemac Finests that were scritchy as all get out. From everything I've read, including talking to Charles himself, the SR Best will have all the positive attributes of the Silvertips, with the added benefit of a bit more backbone. Be that as it may, a Shavemac custom will assure you of getting that 3824-style handle, but the knot will be a trickier proposition. You know that as well as anyone. I can only wonder what Bernd would come up with that matches SR characteristics in a fan.

Here's another option: TGN has recently introduced a 3-band Super Finest knot that has currently supplanted their 2-bands. It looks to be a hybrid bulb-fan, but I could be wrong. Comes in both 22- and 24mm knots. It looks firm and cushy, but being so new I've not heard any feedback on it. TGN's latest batch of regular FInests are supposed to be pretty good. I'll know soon enough as I've ordered one for a custom handle. The 2-band Super Finests from earlier this year were very nice, so this new 3-band might be a good bet. The knots are under 40 bucks, and with a custom handle . . . well, you get the idea.

[Thalay Sagar]

Tim, I had a 3824 and I don't think you would like it. The knot had a feel pretty much like my Simfix T3- nice face feel, good flow through but a little big and kinda all over the place. The handle is, however, is one of the nicest that I have ever used. It's a shame Charles is not offering the 3520 in a larger size. It should be right up your alley. Let me know if you want to try the 3722.

BTW, congrats on the little one's first report card! These are great things.

[TRBeck]

Chris, thanks. I will ponder your offer on the 3722. I suspected the 3824 would be as you describe. As for the 3520, I have surely eyed it, given that your 3120 on loan set me off on the Savile Row trip five years back. Who knows? Truthfully, when I got locked in to using the 3122, I never thought the handle was a problem. It's only when I start pondering an imaginary ideal shave brush that I pick apart these details. Every "grail" brush I have sought has disappointed, including the new Shavemac 2-band silvertip.

Ron, I hear you on TGN prospects. Thing is, I worry they will be too dense. I have come to appreciate flow through over backbone and find my 2-band problematic because of this. I worry TGN would be similar. As for Shavemac firsts, my first tow were scritch less, my next two as scritchy as any Simpson Best if not moreso. Bernd is known for consistency with good reason, but the Finest seems unpredictable.

I suppose I can deal with bulb, handle variations, etc., as at the end of the day, the performance and feel are all that matter. I'll post whenever I reach a conclusion. Thanks for all the comments, guys, and by all means feel free to offer more while I hem and haw.

[TRBeck]

3122



I though about Chris's generous offer to test drive the 3722. In the end, though, I believe I have used a Savile Row brush for almost half of my shaves since I started wetshaving, and all but a handful of those were with the 3122. Just seems like the thing to do.

Having said that, I also sold the 2-band Shavemac silvertip I picked up last month, along with several other items from the den that I have been storing unused for over two years. Seems like I don't need them, perhaps. Ahem. So, even after ordering the 3122, I had some cash. Some of it went toward a silvertip fan from Bernd (the rest I have wisely chosen to spend on my wife). I will give that one more fair shake and hopefully keep both brushes. Two badgers is excessive, but then, anything more than a passable $8 boar is technically excessive. I'm still shy of Buzz's definition of a collector (three) and may eventually part with one of the two if I find myself favoring one heavily. But for now, I'm content that I've achieved some level of minimalism.

I enjoy fidelity. I also enjoy moderate variety. Excessive variety interferes with enjoyment. So, a couple of Omega Pros, a couple of silvertips, a synthetic for travel. Should be about right.

Ron, I suspect you knew exactly what the result would be when you read the OP. Hell, I pretty much knew when I wrote it.

The 3122 is en route.

[rsp1202]

I've seen the movie and have the T-shirt, Tim, so yes, I sorta figured as much. And it's not such a bad thing, after all.

I received mine yesterday and had a luxurious face-lathering with it this morning. I don't remember the others having such white tips, but this one surely does. It's a particularly nice batch of hair. There's certainly no need for any other 3-band after this. So along with a 2-band and a synth, I guess I'm done "collecting." I hope you soon will be, too.

[TRBeck]

Well, mine came in. Two lathers, two shaves. I'll give it another go tomorrow, but I think...er, well...

It's funny airing these sorts of things on the web. I mean, who gives a damn save a few thousand wetshavers in a sea of billions who just shave, baby? So, you know, read on if you're a geek, but this is a bit of an esoteric appraisal:

I don't really think I like it. The tips of my brush are not particularly white, unlike Ron's, but no big deal; mine are almost oddly chestnut. I wouldn't mind except it doesn't work like I remember. Doesn't hold lather well, mostly; I mean, I've had enough to just barely get through my two-pass shave, so it's sufficient, but I'm a geek. I like to lather a third time and then rinse. I also occasionally shave a third pass, especially if I'm playing with a straight. I don't have enough lather for a third pass on one cheek, let alone my face. Could be user error. I'm open to the thought. However, I can lather any soap in my den (and many no longer in my den) and virtually any cream in existence with boar, with silvertip, with pure, with 2-band, with best, with whatever. I've seen a million shave preps and I've rocked them all. This is just not working. Now, maybe I'm not loading enough or not getting the ratio of water right, and so I'll give it another shot, but I've used fifty-odd brushes over the years and toyed with water ratios aplenty, so I'm not optimistic.

Okay, but even then, the tips feel soft and all, and I actually can tell it's a brush, unlike the general softness of a synth, but it doesn't feel as backboned as what I recall. I don't need a bunch of scrub; I'm over that phase of shavegeekery. I just want "enough." And I'm not sure this has it.

Maybe I've grailed this brush and thus given it an impossible task; maybe I can't be pleased. Maybe that's why my boars have given me some pleasure of late - I expect nothing. Or perhaps I liked my two-band silvertip Shavemac more than I thought and sold it too soon...I've been know to do that. Ahem. So, yeah, I think it's unfair to say I'm back at square one. Square one is easy. Any brush is better than none. And best is better than pure. And finest/super is better than best(?) Whatever. I know what I want. I think. But I keep finding out I'm wrong.

Like I said, once more unto the breech (not breach, or do I overreach?). And then...?

[Squire]

Hang in there Tim. I've had brushes I really wanted to like but just never did warm up to them.

[rsp1202]

Well, I think you need some time to decompress from the synthetic experience, Tim, but you know better than most if a brush is hitting its mark after one shave. Whatever the eventual outcome, don't look back because you'll find the right brush next time.

[jww]

Hang in there Tim. I've had brushes I really wanted to like but just never did warm up to them.

Hmmm --- I was thinking the BLK4 --- but I have more than warmed up to it. Can't imagine ever wanting or needing another brush. Ever. Seriously.

[TRBeck]

Well, maybe I need to decompress, as Ron says. Or just hang in there. Today was maybe marginally better. Maybe.

Or maybe Wendell's onto something mentioning Kent. Or maybe I oughta just go back to the boar. Or synthetic. Or order a TGN Finest. Cheap. Make it work. Be done.