Say, "Hey," To the Dark Ages

[M6Classic]

This post is cross-posted from "Wooden Handles."

Let's face it, we are unlikely for a very long time if ever to see badger hair of the quality we became used to twenty years ago. Judging by the degeneration of even Plisson brushes, we may actually be entering some sort of shave brush dark ages. By the way, the Plisson site no longer lists any horn handles...not that I like horn handles, mind you. Really, when I look at my '70s and 80's Plissons and Simpsons, there just isn't anything on the market that comes close to their quality.

Oh, yes, welcome back Gordon, your wisdom has been sorely missed

Buzz

[brothers]

Buzz, I'm a proud owner of two old Plissons, one plexi and one horn, with nice white tips. They perform wonderfully. From your post, it's clear that I'm not missing out on anything at all. However, I'm benefitting greatly from the fact that my brushes are so old. For this I'm grateful.

[EL Alamein]

I am not surprised.

Chris

[Squire]

Buzz I don't think they've improved the M6 either.

[M6Classic]

Buzz I don't think they've improved the M6 either.

Yes, Squire, you're quite right in my opinion, though Chris...more modern fellow that he is...may disagree.

Buzz

[TheMonk]

I only have a few older brushes, and while I don't disagree with you in general, Buzz, I think there are still some very interesting badger hair grades nowadays, and definitely worth trying.

In the last 5 or 6 years, original Rooney Finest and current Simpson's Manchurian badger hairs are both extremely good IMO. Granted, they're almost always lower lofted, extremely dense and not the most soft tipped knots, but they provide an extremely pleasant scrubby feeling that I personally enjoy immensely.

In regards to knot construction and quality, though, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the best of the best were, in general, made from the 70's to the early 90's.

[Squire]

Yes, Squire, you're quite right in my opinion, though Chris...more modern fellow that he is...may disagree.
Buzz

Yes and he may be correct but I'm older than him so I'll ignore the evidence and cling to my own belief which is an M6 should have a brass frame as God obviously intended.

[drmoss_ca]

All current production M's have brass top and bottom plates. I believe the M6 was the only one that didn't.

Chris

[M6Classic]

All current production M's have brass top and bottom plates. I believe the M6 was the only one that didn't.

Chris

Any black paint Leica body has brass tops and bottoms. The big difference between the M-6 and the M-3 (skipping over the regrettable M-4 and outright weird M-5) is that the M-6 has steel drive gears and the M-3 has brass. Thus, the M-6 wind makes a louder, "clackier" noise than the M-3, but the M-6 drive train is much more durable and reliable.

I think of the brass top plate on a leica kind of like two band versus three band badger. To some amongst us it may be worthy of argument, but at the end of the day it doesn't make much difference when weighd against other characteristics of the camera or brush.

Buzz

[M6Classic]

I assume you agree, Chris, that come the Dark Ages one really will need a 75 Summilux and nothing but. And a vintage Plisson or Simpson and nothing but.

buzz

[CMur12]

I assume you agree, Chris, that come the Dark Ages one really will need a 75 Summilux and nothing but. And a vintage Plisson or Simpson and nothing but.

buzz

75mm, Buzz? For an only-lens in 35mm, I think I would still stick to 50mm, perhaps a Summicron in Leica RF. Nevertheless, my choice will always be a TLR (Twin Lens Reflex) for its elegantly simple, rugged, vibrationless functioning, groundglass viewing with both eyes simultaneously, square format, and larger film area.

- Murray

[drmoss_ca]

If the dark ages are going to be that dark, I shall take out my Mandler Noctilux and keep on shooting. I have been playing with an old Hektor 135 lately (made 1933 - 1960). Apparently it was named after Max Berek's dog!

Chris

[M6Classic]

If the dark ages are going to be that dark, I shall take out my Mandler Noctilux and keep on shooting. I have been playing with an old Hektor 135 lately (made 1933 - 1960). Apparently it was named after Max Berek's dog!

Chris

Marty Forscher who maintained the equipment of generations of photographers at 47th Street Camera Repair in New York swore that the story about Hektor was true. Marty probably knew Max Berek.

I know its weird, but I have never used a Noctilux...I never used a fifty much at all...and I have never used a Rooneyor Coates, either!

Buzz

[Raze R. Blade]

Holy zombie threads, Batman! It is the Night of the Living Thread.

Let's face it, we are unlikely for a very long time if ever to see badger hair of the quality we became used to twenty years ago. Judging by the degeneration of even Plisson brushes, we may actually be entering some sort of shave brush dark ages. By the way, the Plisson site no longer lists any horn handles...not that I like horn handles, mind you. Really, when I look at my '70s and 80's Plissons and Simpsons, there just isn't anything on the market that comes close to their quality.

Shave brush dark ages? We are in full-on, all-out, no holds barred, all systems are go wetshaving renaissance. Horn handles are still available, and even ivory if one looks hard enough and locates pre-ban stock. Not to mention ebony, cocobolo, and many other beautiful exotic woods. Of course, resin handles still do quite nicely and come in colors from subdued to garish. There is one to suit almost any taste. And badger? We need no stinkin' badger. After all, a badger is just a weasel with an attitude. Since badger stocks are no longer sufficient to meet sharply increased demand, and because it is decidedly uncool to hunt a species to extinction, synthetics have been developed that are just as good. Yes, even your vaunted old skool badger, as synthetic fibers can be tweaked to fine tune their characteristics. We can haz high mountain white sabertooth water badger brushes, the like of which has not been seen for 10,000 years. And a cheeseburger, too.

Seriously, the supply of badgers is not endless, but the growth in traditional wetshaving seems to be headed that way. Synthetics are the next big thing in brushdom, and that is not a bad thing. Synthetics really can be altered to mimic a sabertooth badger, or any other mythical creature with absolutely perfect hair for brushes. With badger, we are stuck with... badger.

[brothers]

The fact that the most prominent brush companies are switching to synthetics means they are going to bring about the transition to synthetics and ultimately the elimination of dependency on animals for raw materials. Perhaps the dark days are at an end, and a new day in shaving products has come. Omega's S-Brush tells me Omega can now make a fiber better and cheaper than a live animal can.

[EL Alamein]

I wonder if there is a point of diminishing returns after high quality badger hair. I can believe that synthetic bristles can be as good or even better, perhaps, but would anyone notice? Maybe.

Are synthetics cheaper to produce? Maybe, given demand constraints vs manufacturing costs. Marketing will determine that.

Chris

[Squire]

Synthetics are much cheaper to produce, easier as well. There's a reason the term plastic is sometimes used in a derogatory manner to refer to inexpensive, shoddy, imitative goods.

[brothers]

That was certainly true in the previous century.

[Squire]

Even today I believe there's a decided preference for DEs with all metal heads rather than one with plastic parts.

[TheMonk]

Even today I believe there's a decided preference for DEs with all metal heads rather than one with plastic parts.

True, and currently the SS razors seem to be the top pick, but my best DE is definitely the Merkel Slant, which is made of a plastic that resembles bakelite (but I don't think it is).