Reading up on Synthetics

[ShadowsDad]

I don't know that David. I specified a higher loft "as per the prototype brush I tested", and got what I wanted a few months back at the original release. I read from a poster, I believe it was on another forum, that current production is with the higher loft. To confirm this you should go to their website and ask what the loft on current production is.

[TheMonk]

I don't know that David. I specified a higher loft "as per the prototype brush I tested", and got what I wanted a few months back at the original release. I read from a poster, I believe it was on another forum, that current production is with the higher loft. To confirm this you should go to their website and ask what the loft on current production is.

OK Brian, I thought perhaps you knew this for a fact. If I ever like taking a chance on another CH2 Synthetic, I'll ask Mark first, just to be sure. For the moment, though, I don't think I could be happier then with my EJ XL.

[Sam]

Used the chubby. I am impressed. I think I prefer the knot over a TGN one. I like the idea of a custom handle but a cobalt blue Chubby would do very well,

Saw a Cade Plisson synthetic. $30 at l'occitane. Very soft but looks wrong. Not dense. I'd prefer a TGN knot over this

[ShadowsDad]

Sam, IMO, the CH2 with the higher loft is the "best of" also. It's dense, has gel like tips, but with backbone way off the scale. I don't know about the blue handle though. If it's not available I hope it won't be a deal breaker for you. The CH2 could very easily be my "deserted island" brush (except that I like variety and I'm not on that island).

No problems getting it to splay to make lather? Too, have you found that once splayed and the protolather has formed that it remains splayed and doesn't require the pressure to keep it splayed?

[Zot!]

I have the Plisson Synthetic. It does look different but I think that is good. It looks like a synthetic rather than a badger imitation. It also works incredibly well. You can't go wrong on spending the $30 imho--especially that it comes with a drip stand.

[drmoss_ca]

Sounds like things have moved on some way since I bought all the synthetics on the market in 2008 and tried them out. None were dreadful, but none had much character. The best I could say then was they would make practical travel brushes.

Chris

[Squire]

Or it's just the next new thing for those seeking the next new thing.

[ShadowsDad]

Chris, 2008 is the dark ages for synthetics. Times have changed substantially since then. If one expects "badger" from a synthetic, then disappointment will follow. They are a class of brush all their own. Synthetic fiber evolved far more rapidly than Darwins theory ever could have imagined for animal hair and all in just a few years. Once folks decided a relatively inexpensive alternative was required/desired. As one shouldn't expect "badger" from a synthetic, neither should they be used the same as a natural fiber brush. They are quite good if one has an open mind and is capable of adjusting.

I never would have written that just a few years ago (quite good), but the fibers have changed.

[TheMonk]

I really don't think synthetics are simply the "new thing". There are some really good synthetic brushes out there, and although I personally still prefer (some of) my badgers, I believe synthetics are here to stay. Not only that, it seems to me they will most likely be replacing most badger brushes over time, as they are cheaper to make and easier to maintain and use.

[Squire]

Probably more durable as well. I expect their attributes and cost will make them popular with those who are discovering shaving brushes.

[TheMonk]

Probably more durable as well. I expect their attributes and cost will make them popular with those who are discovering shaving brushes.

Definitely. It could actually be a cheaper and a somewhat simpler way for some people to get into wetshaving, via a decent brush and the cream/soap that has to follow.

[TRBeck]

I used a 23mm Mühle v2 synthetic exclusively for over a year. I've recently dabbled in badger and boar again - good badger, mind you, including Shavemac three-band and two-band silvertips. I thought I really missed things about badger, particularly the feel of the brush. I wasn't wrong; it's just that it turns out those things don't matter all that much to me when measured against performance.

I took my Mühle for a spin again last week and was rewarded with easy, perfect lather that released from the brush with no effort. Then, Monday afternoon, my EJ XL showed up. I've only used it twice, although I did a couple of test lathers first, and while it's early for a review, I do have some preliminary thoughts.

First, the handle is a bit chunky for me, although it is attractively shaped. I like the weight and length, but the diameter is a bit much. Not a dealbreaker, I don't think, but it is noticeable.

Second, the hair does appear much more densely packed than my 23mm Mühle. Feels it, too. It's the same fiber, just more of it.

Third, this thing still has incredible flow, even with the added density, and it still makes and releases lather better than any natural hair I've used. I used my standard lathering technique and loading time today and had enough perfectly thick, slick lather for five or six passes.

Fourth, the feel on the face is closer to badger, as others have previously stated, than any other synthetic I've used. It is still not hair, and it doesn't feel like hair, but neither does it feel like nylon. It gives just enough and splays properly. I really like the tactile experience I get with this brush.

I want to try the 23mm EJ as I like this handle shape and would really be in heaven if the brush had this same density in a smaller size. That said, I can easily get used to a bigger handle - I like Omega Pros, after all.

I would say the Mühle 33 K 257 I have is the synthetic brush for BK4 fans. This EJ XL is the synthetic brush for Polo 8 or 10 users. Both are incredibly effective lathering tools and have their own aesthetic and tactile qualities to recommend them. As for the "intangibles," it's possible most of us would do well to reconsider the notion of "soul" as it pertains to inanimate objects like, say, bicycles or shave brushes. If you're over the mystique of the old-line brushmakers (which I admit I am not...yet), there's nothing standing in your way here. Synthetics are inexpensive, consistent, durable, and most importantly, effective. You can get a Mühle knot put into an artisan brush handle if you're really hung up on the idea (I am). In the end, the shave's the thing. I get great ones when the lather is right. With these new generation synthetics, it always is.

[Sam]

Thanks Tim. Would love to hear if you can compare the EJ XL to the Chubby 2 synthetic. I sent the brushes I got to use back today. Some things stand out:

If you soak the synthetics like a badger, then when you go to lathering up on the face, it shakes a lot of water out and it hits the mirror. However, the lather is consistent from first lathering through the sixth. Whereas the badger brush, it can thin out unless you push it up from the central part of the knot. The lather in the synthetic is not as "wet" if you will, but more of a meringue consistency and yet, it is ultimately useable.

The face feel is different. The Chubby 2 felt the best between it and a TGN knot, but I think that was due to density, which caused it not to splay as much. But when I used my silvertip this morning, I could tell it somehow hugged my face better and had a more of a, well not scrubbing effect and not abrasive, but resistant somehow. Not better, not worse, just different.

I have read a lot on the Kent Silvertex, and some Muhles, but the Plisson Cade, even at $30, just looks wrong. Great brush I have read, but it is smaller and seems somehow not as aesthetically pleasing.

[TheMonk]

I want to try the 23mm EJ as I like this handle shape and would really be in heaven if the brush had this same density in a smaller size. That said, I can easily get used to a bigger handle - I like Omega Pros, after all.

From what I was told, the EJ 23mm is more similar to the Mühle 23mm in terms of density, so you may actually be loosing that extra density you enjoyed. Also, the EJ does come in two different handles, the EJ28 and the EJ87. I'm assuming you bought this one, which is the more commonly available model, but you can also have this one.

[TRBeck]

David, thanks for saving me some trouble ordering the 23mm.

Sam, I haven't used the synthetic Chubby. I am mildly interested in it, but it is spendy. If the synthetics tweeted a couple of weeks ago come to fruition as Simpsons or Vulfixes, I will probably have to give one a whirl, assuming they're a bit cheaper. A Grosvenor/Duke handle with a synthetic knot that works would serve desert island duty for me. If I ever get a Chubby to try, I'll definitely give a report.

[rsp1202]

The trick to lathering synthetics is basically, don't use water. IOW, don't soak the brush before lathering. Run it quickly under the tap to where it barely gets wet, squeeze out the remaining water, dribble some water drops on your soap, then start building lather. Add water as needed as you go along. As Sam points out, you load the brush with water and it's going to release immediately. I've had success using this "dry" method with the smaller Muhles, Plissons, and Grooming Co. fibres. Read Brian/SharpSpine's early accounts of using his Plissons and watch his videos on YouTube. Great lather each and every time no matter the soap.

Tim, I've yet to read a review of the smaller EJ synthetics so was also wondering how they would stack up against the XL version. I've seen one video of a Chatsworth-handled synthetic being face-lathered and didn't like the looks of that at all. Yet, Johnny has no trouble with his, so I'm not sure what's going on. If the EJ is anything like the Muhle, then the smaller brushes in the line-up will have different characteristics than the XL in regards to splay, springiness and backbone. So I hope to read more reviews of the smaller EJ's in hopes of finding out how they compare to the Big Guy.

The Vulfix Duke-style synthetics do look interesting, but I haven't heard of a release date yet. Still need to confirm or deny their fibres are the same as the Simpsons version.

[brothers]

For the past month I used the vintage HMW Plisson exclusively and it's wonderful of course. Then when we were traveling I took the EJ XL synthetic in the saving kit. It's remarkable. So when we got home I stayed with the EJ. I confess I am very fond of it. I was formerly loading the Plisson badger for 20 seconds. I've only been loading the EJ for 15 seconds, and getting a ton of good lather. I happen to prefer larger brushes, and am very satisfied with the XL.

Tim's eloquent description of the performance of the EJ says it all.

[ShadowsDad]

Ron, I don't pre wet them at all. Is it wrong to pre wet them even a little bit? Heck no! If it works for you do it.

I just put the initial water directly onto the soap and then begin loading the brush. Tip dipping adds water as required, but just by dipping the tips.

[TRBeck]

I do prewet my synthetic bristles, but only a bit. I don't mind if the lather is a little wet in the initial phase as it will settle in when the brush is fully loaded.

I used the EJ XL again today and found it very nice and efficient. Even the handle seemed okay to me today. That said, the density does interfere with flow ever so slightly when compared to the 23mm Mühle. I am more familiar with the Mühle, so that colors my view, but I think I still prefer it to the EJ. I will of course continue to use the EJ a while to let its nuances reveal themselves; heaven knows I ain't suffering when I lather with it. It's just not quite as good for my tastes as the Mühle. Nevertheless, I think the EJ XL would have more widespread appeal since the flavor of the day seems to be maximum density.

It's funny because these dense "face-lathering" brushes with fat knots and short lofts keep getting traded around while Squire and Chris (Thalay Sagar) use their BK4s daily and Buzz keeps on with his Plisson. Maybe those very dense brushes aren't quite the thing. I have had countless dense, soft-tipped scrubbing brushes pass through my hands, and while I continue to like the idea of them, in reality the flowy boars, the Savile Rows, and this damned synthetic have been used far more often and to greater effect. I'm not trying to imply that no one is happy with their dense face-lathering specialty brushes (what a weird notion: I face-lathered with a Vulfix 2234 and had no trouble); it's just that, well, the guys who have found "the one" almost never seem to have found it in an overstuffed knot.

So here's to Buzz, Squire, Chris, Clive (the Vulfix years!), and stuff that works. And my Mühle synthetic...

[Squire]

I think part of the appeal of dense loft is that's how the more expensive models were made and the perception was denser meant higher quality. Correct assumptions but in actual use I'll take a BK4 over any of them.