Reading up on Synthetics
- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Squire, my experience leads me to believe that a denser loft does have a distinct face feel. I loved how the BK 8 brush so hugged my face. It did open up and I felt that rather than the tips applying the lather, the BK8 sorta parted like the Red Sea and the middle portion of the hair was scrubbing my face. With a Chubby in Best badger, I did not get that sensation. Then that is without any discussion of how the brush looks after your lather with a circular motion, the Chubby is not as splayed open as the BK8.
Now with my recent experience with the TGN and the Chubby in synthetic fibers, compared to each other, the TGN is easier to have the lather made on the face. It's almost immediate. It does have more of a bouncy type of feel over the Chubby because you have to press the Chubby a little bit harder against your face.
Someone mentioned to me, either in a PM or in this thread, that the price of the 'branded' synthetic brush was high. Sure, Simpsons trades on its name, but I have seen brushes where the glue knot from an artisan is above the handle and, while it may not be a sign of any lack of artisanship, I just have never experienced that with a Simpsons. A custom synthetic will be about $50 or so, and the Chubby 2 is $110 shopped or so. So not too much of a price disparity
Now with my recent experience with the TGN and the Chubby in synthetic fibers, compared to each other, the TGN is easier to have the lather made on the face. It's almost immediate. It does have more of a bouncy type of feel over the Chubby because you have to press the Chubby a little bit harder against your face.
Someone mentioned to me, either in a PM or in this thread, that the price of the 'branded' synthetic brush was high. Sure, Simpsons trades on its name, but I have seen brushes where the glue knot from an artisan is above the handle and, while it may not be a sign of any lack of artisanship, I just have never experienced that with a Simpsons. A custom synthetic will be about $50 or so, and the Chubby 2 is $110 shopped or so. So not too much of a price disparity
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Sam it's not wrong to look at the immediate price of a brush, but when it's factored in over all of the years that you'll use it and the desire to want what you want, whether it's a $50 brush or the $110 brush, the price difference is as you figured miniscule.
I find the factor of wanting what I want to be the most powerful factor for myself. Heck, even if it's a $7 Omega boar, I want what I want.
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Oh, and I'm not about to trade or sell any of my dense face lathering brushes. I'm also not in the market for any more brushes of any sort, at least for the moment.
I find the factor of wanting what I want to be the most powerful factor for myself. Heck, even if it's a $7 Omega boar, I want what I want.
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Oh, and I'm not about to trade or sell any of my dense face lathering brushes. I'm also not in the market for any more brushes of any sort, at least for the moment.
Brian
Maker of Kramperts Finest Bay Rum and Frostbite
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Maker of Kramperts Finest Bay Rum and Frostbite
Or find it here: Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, Barclay Crocker, The Old Town Shaving Company at Stats, Maggard Razors; Leavitt & Peirce, Harvard Square
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I agree with Tim and Squire. I've learned this first-hand from Patrick/Pc4406 and his incredible collection and knowledge of such, that brushes with soft tips, good flowthrough and "normal" lofts offer a much more pleasant and satisfying lathering experience than their scrubby, overstuffed counterparts.
Ron
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Hear, hear.rsp1202 wrote:I agree with Tim and Squire. I've learned this first-hand from Patrick/Pc4406 and his incredible collection and knowledge of such, that brushes with soft tips, good flowthrough and "normal" lofts offer a much more pleasant and satisfying lathering experience than their scrubby, overstuffed counterparts.
Bryan
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I agree wholeheartedly, and for me, a Normal Loft is in the neighborhood of 60mm.
Gary
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
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- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Ok, but what about density. That is, the Chubby 2 synthetic has a 54mm, or so I am reading and the website shows 52mm. The TGN knot was set about the same in the brush I used. The Chubby was much denser. Because of that it took more pressure to push it against the face and swirl lather and it gives the feeling of more backbone if you will. However, the TGN has a springiness that you feel and it seems to make the later a bit quicker, just my experience. I don't know that it feels different except that the knot size causes more contact surface and it feels that the CHubby takes up my whole cheek, lol
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Don't get me wrong. I love the feel of a dense brush. A wall of badger or boar is a very nice experience, and it is likely to be the one thing that synthetics will have a hard time matching (but who knows?). It's just that I find myself frustrated by the offsetting lack of easy lather and lather release. Anyway, it's mostly splitting (artificial) hairs. Every brush I've bought was more than usable, including the original VDH boar I had back in 2008. Most were even enjoyable in some respect, and I'm sure every one was some guy's Goldilocks.
For me, it's down to Omega boars, Mühle/EJ v2 synthetics, and maybe some badger with good flow-through and soft tips: BK4, Shavemac silvertip, Thäter, Vulfix, TGN Finest?
As for the EJ, today I had a terrific lather. I do wish for a bit more badgery or boary softness. There's no prickle or scritch, just an awareness that I'm not getting the gentle massaging effect of hair. It feels synthetic. My Mühle does, too, but because there's less hair, the feel is less there. I do also detect the lack of splay that Ron has mentioned with these fibers. I didn't feel that way about the Mühle so much, but here the fibers are quite springy. The lather, once built, helps a bit in keeping the fibers spread and thus splayed, but still, it pushes back a touch. Minor thing. Ultimately, just a top-flight performer.
For me, it's down to Omega boars, Mühle/EJ v2 synthetics, and maybe some badger with good flow-through and soft tips: BK4, Shavemac silvertip, Thäter, Vulfix, TGN Finest?
As for the EJ, today I had a terrific lather. I do wish for a bit more badgery or boary softness. There's no prickle or scritch, just an awareness that I'm not getting the gentle massaging effect of hair. It feels synthetic. My Mühle does, too, but because there's less hair, the feel is less there. I do also detect the lack of splay that Ron has mentioned with these fibers. I didn't feel that way about the Mühle so much, but here the fibers are quite springy. The lather, once built, helps a bit in keeping the fibers spread and thus splayed, but still, it pushes back a touch. Minor thing. Ultimately, just a top-flight performer.
Regards,
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I own four models of synthetic brushes (in the sequence they arrived): Mühle Silvertip Fibre v.2 23 mm, L'Occitane-Plisson, Mühle Silvertip Fibre v.2 25 mm and HJM Black Fibre.
The 23 mm Silvertip performed very well, but from my "real" silvertips I am more used to larger brushes, so I bought the 25 mm version with is my daily brush now.
The L'Occitane-Plisson is very soft and appears to lack some backbone, yet performs well with creams and soaps alike.
The main reason I don't use it more often is that again it is slightly too small for my taste and while it pampers my face with the soft fibres it lacks some feedback.
All in all, I am very pleased with all these synthetics.
The outlier is the HJM Black Fibre; being part of Mühle, I had hoped it would perform nearly as good as their Silvertip Fibres, but it clearly does not.
There is no choice in size, so I had to start with a smaller brush than I really like, but I thought it would make a good travel brush. Better than the synthetics of 2008, it still lacks character, does not lather that well and feels like a brush that has lost too many hairs and is due for replacement, and I find it clearly wanting.
It is sometimes described as a low-cost alternative to Mühle Silvertip Fibres, but in this case I got what I paid for, even though I concede that I may be influenced by my preference for larger brushes and someone looking for a smaller brush may find the Black Fibre adequate.
B.
The 23 mm Silvertip performed very well, but from my "real" silvertips I am more used to larger brushes, so I bought the 25 mm version with is my daily brush now.
The L'Occitane-Plisson is very soft and appears to lack some backbone, yet performs well with creams and soaps alike.
The main reason I don't use it more often is that again it is slightly too small for my taste and while it pampers my face with the soft fibres it lacks some feedback.
All in all, I am very pleased with all these synthetics.
The outlier is the HJM Black Fibre; being part of Mühle, I had hoped it would perform nearly as good as their Silvertip Fibres, but it clearly does not.
There is no choice in size, so I had to start with a smaller brush than I really like, but I thought it would make a good travel brush. Better than the synthetics of 2008, it still lacks character, does not lather that well and feels like a brush that has lost too many hairs and is due for replacement, and I find it clearly wanting.
It is sometimes described as a low-cost alternative to Mühle Silvertip Fibres, but in this case I got what I paid for, even though I concede that I may be influenced by my preference for larger brushes and someone looking for a smaller brush may find the Black Fibre adequate.
B.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
Bertrand Russell
Bertrand Russell
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I think the black fibre actually feels better than the STF. I used a Mühle black fibre (same stuff as the HJM) and thought it had a very nice, soft, hairlike feel. If it were available in a 23mm or 25mm knot, I would buy one or two (backups, you know...) and sell everything else, including my STFs. It feels sparse at a small size, though, I agree. Ultimately, I couldn't continue using it as I wanted a more substantial knot. Honestly, to me the Mühle black fibre is the sleeping giant in the synthetic world. Give shavers a good-size knot with that fibre and I suspect you'd have a hard time keeping up with demand.
Regards,
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I have an hjm brush w. ergonomic handle that just happens to come in the colors of my alma mater. Regardless of the smaller knot, it can make great lather out of just about anything (haven't tried current Williams). I've used it to face lather soap sticks, lather from a puck in a mug, and several creams. I've even whipped up some Cremo into what almost looks like a passable lather, but then adding some KMF fragrance free makes a super lather.TRBeck wrote:I think the black fibre actually feels better than the STF. I used a Mühle black fibre (same stuff as the HJM) and thought it had a very nice, soft, hairlike feel. If it were available in a 23mm or 25mm knot, I would buy one or two (backups, you know...) and sell everything else, including my STFs. It feels sparse at a small size, though, I agree. Ultimately, I couldn't continue using it as I wanted a more substantial knot. Honestly, to me the Mühle black fibre is the sleeping giant in the synthetic world. Give shavers a good-size knot with that fibre and I suspect you'd have a hard time keeping up with demand.
I have a bigger TGN synthetic knot that's not quite as soft at the tips, and stiffer overall. It can hold a bit more lather, but the hjm has everything else going for it despite the smaller knot.
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I like the quality of the Muhle STF brush (21- and 23mm) more than any other synthetic I've used. It's well made, the fibres are very soft on the skin, and of course the lather is first-rate. However, its springiness disqualifies it for me since it annoyingly refuses to open up unless pushed (literally), and I stubbornly refuse to change my lathering habits, feeling it's the brush's job to adapt to me rather than the other way around. I still hold out hope for the larger STF fibres in the EJ XL size and hope to test them out eventually. Same with the Simpsons/Vulfix synths, as soon as they become available in Duke size. I'm not opposed to setting up house with a couple of synths to complement a couple more badgers.
I've experimented with the Plisson-style knot, both the L'Occitane version and the denser Grooming Co. model, and prefer this fibre for now. After playing with the density and lofts on these brushes, my preference returns to the original GCo knot. I could live with its short-ish loft, but setting it in a larger custom handle and letting it breathe with a couple more millimeters in loft (25/52) should make for a comfortable and formidable face-latherer.
I've experimented with the Plisson-style knot, both the L'Occitane version and the denser Grooming Co. model, and prefer this fibre for now. After playing with the density and lofts on these brushes, my preference returns to the original GCo knot. I could live with its short-ish loft, but setting it in a larger custom handle and letting it breathe with a couple more millimeters in loft (25/52) should make for a comfortable and formidable face-latherer.
Ron
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
I've confirmed I strongly prefer the EJ XL synthetic over the Muhle version. The look, feel, and performance are a near-perfect fit with my perceptions and expectations. I'm about ready to admit it's right up there with the vintage Plisson 18 HMW , Rooney Finest 3/3, and the Semogue 2000 boar, based on those 3 standards.
Gary
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- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Gary I have read that the EJ uses the same fibers as the Muhle 2.0 or something like that, but it is denser. ANy comparison to the Chubby 2 synthetic?brothers wrote:I've confirmed I strongly prefer the EJ XL synthetic over the Muhle version. The look, feel, and performance are a near-perfect fit with my perceptions and expectations. I'm about ready to admit it's right up there with the vintage Plisson 18 HMW , Rooney Finest 3/3, and the Semogue 2000 boar, based on those 3 standards.
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Chubby won't bend easily. Too springy. Most of the guys i know hated it and sold it for EJ/Muhle STF v2. Chubby and Frank Shaving pur tech suffer from the same issue. I'd avoid them. My 2 cents.Sam wrote:Gary I have read that the EJ uses the same fibers as the Muhle 2.0 or something like that, but it is denser. ANy comparison to the Chubby 2 synthetic?brothers wrote:I've confirmed I strongly prefer the EJ XL synthetic over the Muhle version. The look, feel, and performance are a near-perfect fit with my perceptions and expectations. I'm about ready to admit it's right up there with the vintage Plisson 18 HMW , Rooney Finest 3/3, and the Semogue 2000 boar, based on those 3 standards.
- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
In the EJ, which handle is more like a Chubby? Connaught has great prices on these.
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Sam, the XL (25mm). The handle is longer than a Chubby but plenty of girth and the knot is big.
Regards,
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Tim
Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
they have an EJ 87 and an ej 28. One looks more like a polo I am thinking
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Sam, I have the EJ28, and I find it very ergonomic and comfortable. The EJ87 is more of a classic Muhle handle, which is also quite comfortable, but a bit smaller - perhaps more suited for face lathering.Sam wrote:they have an EJ 87 and an ej 28. One looks more like a polo I am thinking
Last edited by TheMonk on Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
David
“Use any means to keep from being a genius, all means to become one.” John Cage
“Use any means to keep from being a genius, all means to become one.” John Cage
- Sam
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Re: Reading up on Synthetics
David, I face lather so something along the Chubby handle moreso than a Polo suits me
Re: Reading up on Synthetics
Sam, sorry I missed your question earlier. Maybe it's the same fibers, but I agree with the above.numerouno wrote:Chubby won't bend easily. Too springy. Most of the guys i know hated it and sold it for EJ/Muhle STF v2. Chubby and Frank Shaving pur tech suffer from the same issue. I'd avoid them. My 2 cents.Sam wrote: Gary I have read that the EJ uses the same fibers as the Muhle 2.0 or something like that, but it is denser. Any comparison to the Chubby 2 synthetic?
Gary
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
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