A brush conundrum

[rexcarolus]

Greetings,

I recently purchased a brush from a longstanding, well-reputed manufacturer. When I received it, the labelling indicated that I had received the wrong hair grade. I contacted the manufacturer to confirm and was reassured it was indeed the correct grade. Upon using the brush, it is nothing like all the recent descriptions. No soft tips, let alone gel-like, but scritchy and, even worse, prickly like Simpsons Pure.

So my questions: how hard do I press the manufacturer to make this right? If I get stuck with this brush, is there any chance of it softening or breaking in? I am extremely skeptical based on all previous experience.

I don't want to drag the maker through the mud on this, but I feel people need to be informed when this example is the polar opposite of how recent purchasers describe them (and if no remedy is offered).

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[brothers]

Act promptly, first verify through whatever resource you can, that you did indeed receive the wrong brush. Also ask the manufacturer to explain exactly why the brush you got is what you bought, even though you believe that is not accurate. Then if it becomes clear that an error was made, take the dispute to Paypal ASAP. Make sure you can document the discrepancy, and the seller has refused to cooperate even after being confronted with the correct information.

[rexcarolus]

Thank you, Gary. You have given me hope in this situation. I paid via PayPal, so I will pursue this if I do not get a further reply from the maker within one more business day.

Before my time in wetshaving, I understand that many were satisfied simply to get a true "white" badger. Now that this hair has proliferated and credible examples can be had more readily and for far less money, I believe that the reputable makers should offer some consistency of feel to justify their pedigree and price-point, especially if the ad copy describes this as a "soft" grade of hair.

Simply put, the brush in question feels nothing like any 2 band I have ever tried, and that includes Simpsons, Wiborg, and WSP. It is a dead ringer for my Eagle 3 Pure and is almost useless to me as a facelathering brush.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[fallingwickets]

my 2c....if you are unhappy with a purchase FOR ANY REASON, seller needs to take back their product and if they dont, its 'nuke em' time I.E. paymentl dispute and social media onslaught including complaints to better business etc. Selling junk and trying to shirk responsibility is soooo 20th century

clive

[rexcarolus]

Thanks, Clive. One would think (hope) that all manufacturers would understand your point, especially in the niche area of badger brushes.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[ShadowsDad]

Please don't withhold the name of the manufacturer. If they make it right we need to know, and if they don't that's even more important IMO. Help folks who might be thinking of a purchase, please don't allow them to fall into a trap.

You might also use the divulging of their name here as leverage. Let them know that the shave community is watching how this works out. Don't threaten them, let their own brain cogitate and figure it out. I'd just let them know that you told the story of the brush on a shave forum that is part of the tight knit community of potential customers. They'll be able to figure it out.

Logically from their viewpoint, even if you're trying to scam them, it's not worth the negative publicity. Or at least I wouldn't think so. I'm not saying that you are scamming them. But that must be what they're thinking, or that you don't know a good brush from a bad one. Really? A company that can't make a bad brush? That would be a first.

[brothers]

I completely agree Brian. One negative outcome would be if the complaint degenerates into an ugly verbal exchange between the parties. As a complaining customer, I'd make sure I had the correct facts before blasting away. As a vendor, I'd think long and hard before responding in any way other than positive and reconciliatory.

[rexcarolus]

Yes, Brian, I will be sure to post in more detail once this is resolved. I will hold off on naming names until then. I documented the situation in an email to the maker by contrasting its characteristics versus other makers' products I own in the "same" grade with some picture evidence. It's been three plus days with no reply to that email. I am giving it until Monday afternoon to hear back before I contact again about posting a product review or initiating a PayPal dispute.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[M6Classic]

All of the above is quite true and one should expect a manufacturer to stand behind his or her product and act with integrity. That said, we must recognize that the grading and nomenclature for badger hair is totally unregulated and there are no generally accepted standards for what is silver tip, high mountain white, super, best, pure, high mountain European, blonde, Manchurian, finest, etcetera, etcetera. In fact, it seems that any manufacturer can call the badger in their handles anything they wish. Also, the qualities of various manufacturers' badger seem to vary wildly depending upon what is available on the market at any particular time; that which passes today as Plisson High Mountain White has absolutely noting in common with Plisson High Mountain White sourced prior to 1982. The same goes for Simpson Manchurian. Then you throw in the nonsense about two banded versus three banded brushes and any hope of being able to judge badger by its name devolves to utter rubbish.

Buzz

[rexcarolus]

Quite right, Buzz, about hair grading. But given the options today, I think it is fair to expect an "elevated" grade of hair not to be uncomfortable or prickly, especially when the marketing copy suggests softness. And I don't consider myself too sensitive to prickle/scritch. My Simpsons 2 bands from the 2009-2011 period (often derided these days as "not soft") are just fine for my face.

There was no reply from the maker by EOB today, so I sent a follow-up going through the points again and saying it could be elevated to the community and/or a PayPal dispute.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[Big Swifty]

Good luck with this Rex, I hope they do you right and get you what you paid for...

[rexcarolus]

Thank you, Steve

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[rexcarolus]

Well, the maker has gotten back to me. They are saying the brush is 100% normal based on pictures of it they requested. They are willing to accept it back for a return of the product price (not shipping) if I ship it back (international with tracking at my expense). I have mixed feelings about whether this is satisfactory and I would appreciate your feedback. All I can say at this point is that I have 0% interest in purchasing a product from this company again.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[brothers]

Maybe others will have different views, but I see two options. See if you can sell the brush on the forums at a fair price for what it is, and absorb the loss, OR, accept the refund and spend the shipping costs, and absorb the loss. In either case, post about it and disclose the full details, specifically the full details of the brush and also the full name of the manufacturer, and let the buying public make their own conclusions. The manufacturer might save return shipping in your case, but they probably will lose at least one sale, if not more, and will ultimately lose more than their profit on this deal. They don't seem to be as "shrewd" as a businessman as they apparently think they are by forcing you to pay return postage, in my opinion.

[rexcarolus]

Thank you, Gary. How about this--I will send the brush back and once I receive the refund, I will post about the details here and elsewhere.

I am seeing quite a number of these brushes in this hair grade come up for sale on BSTs these days. All are described as "soft tips," but how many actually feel like mine if mine is "100% normal" and is an absolute prickly scritch-monster even with a fan shape and above-average loft? How many people are buying these and finding out they are not what they are billed to be? Are they then protecting themselves by claiming the brushes are "soft" when they resell? Either these brushes are really inconsistent or people are not speaking up.

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[brothers]

Yes, first, get the money! I strongly agree with your opinion that there are probably a lot of other guys who've been disappointed, and have elected not to spread the warning.

[ShadowsDad]

Personally I couldn't sell something on a b/s/t that I know to be substandard without disclosing that information. What would the hit be that you would take? Not to disclose full details for the sale would damage your credibility and make you just like the company. So clearly that's a non-starter.

Shipping is always considered a loss if you return something. But shipping something that is substandard in the first place should be taken into account by the company. A prepaid return label or some such would go along way toward making you happy. I can't figure out some companies. I always bend over backwards to satisfy my friends who buy my products. Asking myself, "How would I want to be treated ?" Goes a long way to understanding the customer. Yes, I was scammed once and I knew that I was being scammed, but I actually felt sorry for the gent that he thought so little of himself to stoop so low. (One lone bottle in how many batches made should be the one bottle to "go bad" with no other complaints of spoilage? Unh huh, right. It can't happen.)

What I would like to see is that when the company receives the brush and finds that it's a bad brush, that that make you 100% whole.

[rexcarolus]

I am taking a different approach here: a member of another forum had recently posted in a very well-informed manner about this company's brushes, describing break in, varieties of hair, all with no apparent commercial interest in them. After chatting with him over PM, we decided it might be informative to have him compare this brush with the others from this company he has tried and those he currently owns. It may be some time before I hear back from him (hopefully I do hear back ). I will keep you updated....

Regards,

Rexcarolus

[brothers]

OK. Just so I understand, are you saying that if the other gentleman likes it, you will discontinue your position and keep the brush instead of sending it back to the manufacturer for a refund? Technically speaking, is there correlation between his opinion, good or bad, and your well-stated and clear dissatisfaction with it?

As it stands now, the sole issue currently in dispute is whether you should pay the cost of shipping the brush back so you can get the promised refund. I'm losing interest at this point, just to be honest. No offense intended. Good luck to you, in whatever approach you eventually take.

[rexcarolus]

No problem, Gary. I appreciate your thoughts.

The person in question has bought and sold and kept many brushes from this brand and maintains a good rapport with the company owner, it seems. He says that my description of the brush is totally at odds with how it is supposed to feel. So I am just really curious to have a third party try it. My position on it isn't going to change. But at least I may have some independent confirmation that it is defective, and I may be able to go to the manufacturer and says, "Hey, this gent who is a great customer of yours also says it is simply not right."

I figure it is worth a shot since I'm not ready to concede defeat yet....

Regards,

Rexcarolus