Why use DE razors?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:12 pm

I was wondering why a person would use a DE razor. Since I am somewhat new to wet shaving I figured that a Mach 3 gives the best and safest shave. Is using a DE just a preference or does it actually shave closer than a Mach 3. What is all the hype about.

Seeing all the reviews on using a DE, I would probably bleed to death in my bathroom or I would come out looking like I had been through a grinder.

I really hate (really hate) buying Mach 3 blades at $2 per. I know that DE are way less expensive. Maybe that is the insentive.

Thanks for the opinions.

Gramps · Post by **Gramps** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:14 pm

Hi Johnnie,

While the expense of blades is surely a consideration, the closeness of shave is the goal and comfortabilitity, of course.

As stated before, I am a DE man from just about the beginning. I actually began with a str8!! I moved to a DE when I entered high school (many moons ago) for the convenience and a little more speed.
After I married, I tried at various times the 'new fad' razors, but always returned to the DE.
The shave with the BIC types and Twin Blade this/that and pivoting head/modified handle things, never seemed to be as close or as comfortable for me.
The thing with the DE is, you must take your time!
Proper beard prep is imperitive and knowing your own beard is very important; ie. the direction of grain, sensitive skin areas, etc.
With the M3 and similar, one can shave in any direction, as fast as he wants and more or less, get an acceptable result. With the DE and str8, you need to take a lot of time (in the beginning anyway) and learn to enjoy the feeling of the sharp blade against the skin and the expected result..... a CLOSE shave!

If the skin of your neck, for example is very sensitive, don't shave against the grain right away. Just a north/south pass and leave it at that for a while. When you are used to pivoting heads and 'warp speed', you need to learn to slow down (concentrate on the task, no day-dreaming) and use your wrist for the pivot. Keep the blade at a constant angle and do not press the blade hard against the skin, keeping the skin fairly tight with the free hand. Use the weight of the razor only and use short (2" ?) strokes, rinsing the blade often under hot water. Re-lather if necessary, to keep the whiskers moist and the skin warm.

Take time while shaving and take a couple of weeks to get used to the razor. I think your skin also requires time to 'toughen up' a bit, getting used to the blade edge against it.

I recently returned to a str8 after many years (nostalgia the reason, mostly) but the shave is SO MUCH better!!! I did need a few days to get my strokes correct though (I am a right hand only shaver, don't trust my left hand with the str8!!!) and I have noticed my skin is tougher after a couple of weeks and at almost 50 years old, I once again shave twice a day... could shave 3 times, if needed!! My beard is thicker and healthier than it has been in a long time and my skin is healthier as well.
I think the healthier skin is a good reason to shave closer!!!

Having said all that.... IF the M3 shaves you close and you are happy with that, keep with it.
If you are adventurous and don't mind the time it takes (and a few nicks along the way

) then give the double edge a try.... look for a Gillette adjustable on eBay (there has been a few lately) and start with the angle setting at 2 ... less agressive... build the agressiveness of angle to your own beard, after you are used to it. If you start out too agressive, you will not appreciate the DE at all!!

That's my take on it and you know the saying about opinions!!! Everybody has one! LOL

Good luck, look forward to your shave report...

Regards, Gramps

razor_boy · Post by **razor_boy** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:34 pm

I second all of what Larry said!

I would also add, that I started using a DE for several reasons, the first was I was not happy with my save quality with an M3 and the use of a DE was my start of taking my wetshaving more seriously (goal was no longer how fast can I get it done).

I also enjoy learning new skills and using a DE was definately a new skill to be learned. I am also trying to simplify various aspects of my life. Just because something is new its not always better.

Shaving for me with a DE is better than it ever was with an M3 and I have much more controll over my shave & shaving experience. Shaving is no longer a chore to be done but a morning ritual to be experienced.

Let us know what happens.

Paul.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:00 pm

WOW. Thanks for all the advice. I am a little torn. After speaking with Vince he also told me the benefits to using a DE. It seems that a lot of guys use a DE is to avoid razor burn, and ingrown hairs. I have never had that problem with an M3.

I guess the main reason for me to switch would be money and the experience. I also understand that a DE does not really give you a closer shave? With an M3, it pulls up the hair and then cuts opposed to just cutting at the surface with a DE.

I really don't have a lot of time in the morning to shave. I usually shave in the shower. I have all my supplies in there with me. Brush, creams, and my M3. I would probably need and extra 30 mins. to prep and shave.

Maybe a DE isn't for me. I don't have a thick beard and I have never had a problem with my M3 except for the $2 blades. I can use the same blade for several weeks. Mostly because I am to cheap to buy more. I should probably change the blade about every 2 weeks since I dont have a thick beard.

My grandfather has been using a DE for as long as I can remember. It's like second nature to him. I know he usually has a stock of blades and has a few extra razors.

I know who I am going to visit this weekend!

Thanks for all the help and opinions. Maybe I will experiment with a DE on the weekends.

razor_boy · Post by **razor_boy** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:08 pm

Johnnie,

For me a DE does give me a closer shave than a M3. But many people use an M3 and love it. There isn't a big cost involved with getting a DE you already have the soaps & creams. The best thing you can do is try it for yourself. Then if you want to stick with an M3 you can feel good about it because you tried a DE. More than anything have fun.

Paul.

rschul2 · Post by **rschul2** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:46 am

To put it simply, I was getting an OK shave with the mach3, but the pain associated with the 3 bladed razor was unbearable. After switching to a DE, I noticed (minus the short learning curve) that I could get an equally close shave, minus the pain. The DE makes shaving a pleasure and not a chore.

luigi · Post by **luigi** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:05 pm

I was also a Mach3 user until someone got me interested in trying a str8. I bought all the stuff I needed and headed into wet shaving full bore. The str8 shave results for so much closer and smoother than anything I had used before; although the stiptic pencil got much more of a workout, also. I next decided to buy a Merkur DE and the amount of nicks went down imediately. Luckily, I had done my homework and read all about letting the razor do the work. I sometimes think I'd like to try my str8's again, but I feel I can get pretty much just as close a shave with the DE and at a fraction of the time. Irritation has not been a problem.

JackieMartling · Post by **JackieMartling** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Johnnie, you can definitely save money using a DE, and I would not dissuade you from trying one. However, I would like to point out that it is simply not necessary to pay $2 per M3 cartridge. Costco sells M3 Turbo cartridges in semi-bulk for about $1.75 per cartridge. If you really want to save some dough, razorsdirect.com sells M3 cartridges for as little as $1.37 per, and M3T cartridges for as little as $1.56 per. This is still over three times as much as Merkur DE blades, at 50 cents a blade. But if you find you actually prefer an M3 over a DE, there are ways to prevent hemorrhaging quite so much cash to the Gillette company.

http://www.razorsdirect.com/page/page/637542.htm

-Edit-
I just looked at the original post date on this thread. I was wondering why Johnnie was asking about this, since I could have sworn I saw other threads of his about his DE experiences. I rather doubt he needs our input now. Oh well, the information is still pertinent for other newbies entertaining the idea of using a DE, so no harm in reviving the thread.

joefriday · Post by **joefriday** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:14 pm

Johnnie,

Another reason for using the DE that's not been mentioned yet?

It's way cool....

mantic · Post by **mantic** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:22 pm

Throwing my US $0.02 into this thread, as I've recently moved from an M3 to an adjustable DE (a Merkur Progress).

Both the M3 (I use Turbo cartridges) and the DE give me equally good shaves. I really like the way I can "dial down" the Progress to a gentle setting to get my neck: I had always figured the "topology" down there would require a pivoting-head blade but reasonable DE technique combined with the low setting proved me wrong.

The M3 is more "automatic" (I won't say "idiot proof"

) than a DE--I have to pay closer attention to shaving with the DE. I can shave faster with the M3 (but, suprisingly to me, not that much faster).

Using the Progress is without a doubt a more luxurious, sensuous experience compared to the M3. The weight and workmanship of the Progress just scream "quality."

Regarding cost, just for grins and giggles I fired up my spreadsheet program to find out the "crossover point" where DE shaving becomes more economical than M3 shaving. I assumed the cost of the Progress was US $45, DE blade US $0.45, M3T US $11, and M3T cartridges US $1.75. I also assumed one blade was used per week (DE or M3). It took 29 weeks for the DE to "cross over" and become more economical. YMMV of course.

--Mark

Post by **Sam** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:44 am

mark: run this for me. a vision costing $110.00 and a merkur blade costing 55 cents. and i use the merkur blade two weeks vs. a week for the mach 3. i imagined my crossover was about 35 weeks.

now, when i use a DE blade, i get a week on each side

sam

JackieMartling · Post by **JackieMartling** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:53 am

Sam, I decided to run it for you, since I have Excel. I ran it four ways: I used your cost of 55 cents per Merkur blade, as well as the initial cost of $110 for a Vision, calculating a blade replacement every two weeks (Option 1). I also ran it with a new blade every week, since that is how often many men say they change their blades (Option 2). However, since Charles at QED sells a Vision for $100, and Merkur blades for $4.29 a pack, making the per blade cost 43 cents, I decided to run the figures that way, as well, with a new blade every two weeks (Option 3), and every week (Option 4). Something to consider is, since we're factoring in startup cost with the razor itself, the first ten blades are included in the cost of the razor, so a new user won't start to incur replacement costs until either eleven or twenty-one weeks in the cost models. For Mach 3 cost, I used the least expensive price I could find, which is the bulk rate of $1.37 per cartridge through razorsdirect.com. Note: none of these models factor in shipping costs or sales tax.

Key: the term "crosses over" is to mean the point in time at which a given cost option results in a lower total expenditure than the cost of using one standard Mach 3 cartridge per week.

Option 1 crosses over at 98 weeks.
Option 2 crosses over at 131 weeks.
Option 3 crosses over at 85 weeks.
Option 4 crosses over at 105 weeks.

Post by **Sam** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:00 pm

Jackie. u da man. the prices i mentioned are the approximate costs i had for these items when i purchased them in november 03 from classicshaving. i had not know of charles at that time, and i dont know if he carried these products or not at that time. he has some real attractive prices, and ray being in california, may have higher overhead. heck it gets tough at times trying to decide to buy from ray, or charles or robert in england. so what i have to do is to see what ALL i am gonna order. it appears that if i get rid of my merkur open comb, i need a vision travel pouch. charles has the best price, so id get it from him with some davinci water, maybe his new shave stick, and if i did not like feather blades i am gonna try, then some merkur blades.

otherwise, if i like feathers, id order from ray and get a pouch from him, cause shipping makes it a little expensive at times to split up an order, and then i would wait on the davinici water when i can combine it with something else.

so, i am a little over half way from crossing over.

sam

JackieMartling · Post by **JackieMartling** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 pm

Sam, I decided to update the figures with current prices from Ray, which are $120 for a Vision, and Merkur blade 10-packs at $4.59. Option 1 is Ray's price with a new blade every two weeks; Option 2 is Ray's price with a new blade every week. Option 3 is Charles's current price with a new blade every two weeks; Option 4 is Charles's price with a new blade every week. I also decided to calculate M3T costs, the lowest of which still comes from razorsdirect.com, at $1.56 a cartridge.

Option 1 vs. a M3 crosses over at 104 weeks.
Option 1 vs. a M3T crosses over at 88 weeks.
Option 2 vs. a M3 crosses over at 130 weeks.
Option 2 vs. a M3T crosses over at 105 weeks.
Option 3 vs. a M3 crosses over at 85 weeks.
Option 3 vs. a M3T crosses over at 72 weeks.
Option 4 vs. a M3 crosses over at 105 weeks.
Option 4 vs. a M3T crosses over at 85 weeks.

This concludes my data crunching for the day.

JackieMartling · Post by **JackieMartling** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:30 pm

I hear you loud and clear, Chris. DE blades might cost less, but I doubt there is a person who uses them who doesn't consider wetshaving a hobby. As any hobby enthusiast will tell you, hobbies consume cash. Your average shaver probably has a can of edge gel, a stock Mach 3, and maybe a bottle of Afta, or its equivalent. Your average DE shaver no doubt has a more expensive razor, a good brush, expensive soaps, creams, pre-shaves, and post shaves. And that doesn't even take into account the incessant desire to acquire more and different types of razors. Money saver my bum.

Sure is fun, though.

clownjuggles · Post by **clownjuggles** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:09 pm

I use a double edge razor. I was going through 3 Mach 3 blades a week. I go through 1 DE a week approx. Open Comb Double edge my grandpa had and a basic brush. I do have a collection of creams because i like variety. but most of my collection is bargin basement.

Post by **Sam** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:54 pm

you got me chris. i just sold three straight razors and here i am getting the straightrazorplace club razor. and i swear, i cant shave my neck worth crap with one

sam

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:44 pm

Sam, I'm proud of you, I really am. You HAVE gotten much better a spending a little money on yourself, and it's all for the good. While it's true that today, this whole wetshaving thing IS a hobby, and I have quite a stock of shaving supplies, four brushes, six razors, etc., this wasn't always the case. For twenty years I shaved with a DE and canned foam, and the DE was partly for economy. Even after I started traditional brush shaving, for many years I had my Gillette DE Adjustable, my boar bristle brush, and my bowl of Crabtree&Evelyn shave soap, and that was it. A new cake of soap once every eight months or so, and Wilkinson DE blades at less then $1 per five pack. So, not ALL DE shavers are necessarily hobbyists. Regards, Gordon

SMF

Why use DE razors?

Why use DE razors?

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