Gillette Trac II v. Guard

[brothers]

I am curious to know how these match up. Has anyone recently shaved with both and formed an opinion? I'm thinking of doing it too. I've always known that every time I use a Trac II I develop some ingrown hairs. Never happens with any other razor, but 100% of the time with the Trac II, going back to when they were first introduced. I want to give the Guard a go and see if it causes ingrowns too.

Speaking of the Guard, I read a recent WSJ article about it, and it seems P&G/Gillette is considering the possibility of introducing them in USA, depending on how they work out in India, where they admit their intended purpose is to convert the masses from the DE to the Guard.

[michiganlover]

I shaved last week for five shaves with the Gillette Guard (to test Gillette's claims that each cartridge is good for five shaves, and hence RS1 cost per shave). YMMV, but I will probably never use the razor again.

The handle is super lightweight. It has about the same amount of mass as a disposable. It looks, and feels very cheaply made.

I like my razors to have more weight than a typical disposable.

The pivot moves freely; it has no spring too it like an Atra, or Sensor would.

As for the shave itself, while the cartridge didn't pull on the first shave, it didn't exactly feel smooth either. Shaves 2-5 were about the same. I drew blood on all five shaves.

I am a big fan of the Trac II (which I use with an Omega handle). The Trac II is vastly superior to the Guard. I can get wonderful Trac II shaves using just about any available blade: Gillette, Personna, or Dorco. I have yet to try the new Wilkinson Sword blades (although I have a pack in my arsenal).

It's my opinion only, but I don't think most shaving aficionados would be very happy with the Gillette Guard. But Gillette is not marketing to us anyway.

P.S. Hopefully Pauldog will also chime in, as his experience was vastly different than mine.

[joe mcclaine]

It's my opinion only, but I don't think most shaving aficionados would be very happy with the Gillette Guard. But Gillette is not marketing to us anyway.

Shaving Aficionados?

That's a new one.

How would you define such a beast?

[michiganlover]

Shaving Aficionados?

That's a new one.

How would you define such a beast?

A Shaving Aficionado: someone obsessed with all things shaving. The typical member of the shaving boards, who is constantly chasing after the newest, and greatest products in the hopes that it is somehow better than the Shaving Nirvana they had previously found.

The Gillette Guard is marketed towards someone who's primary concern is shaving cheaply, and perhaps with no water, or a small cup of water. Getting the best shave ever, is likely of minimal concern.

[Pureslab]

It's my opinion only, but I don't think most shaving aficionados would be very happy with the Gillette Guard. But Gillette is not marketing to us anyway.

Shaving Aficionados?

That's a new one.

How would you define such a beast?

Could be similar to food aficionados

Just gotta push the limit some times for our respective hobbies.

[bernards66]

Gary, I have that ingrown problem with ALL multi-blade cartridges, and I tried most of them from the Trac II up through the M3 Turbo. That Guard number should not cause that problem as it has only one blade. I've never had the ingrown/razor bumps issue with single bladed Bics for example.
Regards,
Gordon

[brothers]

Gordon, I think it's time for me to open mine and try it.

[Pauldog]

every time I use a Trac II I develop some ingrown hairs. Never happens with any other razor, but 100% of the time with the Trac II

With more than one brand of blade?


I mentioned in another thread or two that my experience with the Guard was very good. Smooth shave and not even close to making any nicks, even when removing several days of reasonably thick beard. The skin on my face is fairly tough. I should try the Guard on the back of my neck, which is much more tender. An injector works fine there, but a Norelco that works fine on my face will make the back of my neck sore for days.

I agree that the handle on the Guard is too light. Even when I fill the hollow part with small nails and epoxy, it still feels somewhat too light, and the head is still super light.

I'd like to see it compared with a high-end disposable, like a Mach 3, Sensor 3, Xtreme 3, or Bic Metal. Except for the Bic Metal, it's way more cost effective.

[brothers]

Paul, so far, the Trac II has given me those pesky ingrowns with every blade, it seems.

Right now, I'm two days into a planned 15 shave regimen with the Guard. I've got three blades with the razor I got from you and I figure I'll see if I can get at least 5 decent shaves out of each blade. After that, I'm going to do the same with my trusty old original Trac II and then I'll compare notes.

I have no complaints with the Guard so far. It is as light as a shiny black little feather in use. I have simply adapted, making sure that I use no pressure whatsoever, which has been a temptation due to the extreme light weight. I have been wondering about why those guys who say it draws blood every time. Maybe it is because subconsciously the brain says "I don't feel anything, better mash down harder with the razor". I've just maintained "zero pressure", letting the blade do it's thing. I am impressed. I've been asking my wife to feel of the finished product, and she has said, well, it's not quite as smooth as usual, but it's not bad. So there you go. 13 more days and we'll have a much better pool of experience with the Guard.

So far: I like it, and I like shaving with it. I like the quality of the shave, and I like the looks and ergonomics of the Guard. They made sure the handle is nice and long, it's not skinny, and it has a nice varied pattern of grooves and knurling all up and down the handle so there's no chance of anybody saying it's slippery. It's even got an opening on the front side of the handle at the end so the user can hang it on a hook when not in use. Somebody in the design department did a very good job with the whole razor, both the OC blade, and the man-sized handle.

I've been pondering whether I should try to add some weight to the hollow handle, and I think it would be easy due to the wide opening at the bottom. I think between maybe an 8 or 10 penny nail, maybe some body filler putty (bondo?) finished off with a cap of epoxy, it might change the characteristics of the razor, but I'm not sure whether that would be good or bad. I might get industrious and see what I can do. So far, I am not complaining about the light weight of the Guard. It just is what it is!

The blades are listed on ebay, 24 blades for a total cost of $12 which is $6 for the blades and $6 for shipping from India. That's 50 cents each, and if it yields 5 shaves, that's a dime a shave. Then we have to do the math with our own blades, per shave over time, to see if that's a good or not so good cost per shave.

Thanks for making the Guard available, Paul. It's very interesting.

[michiganlover]

I have been wondering about why those guys who say it draws blood every time. Maybe it is because subconsciously the brain says "I don't feel anything, better mash down harder with the razor". I've just maintained "zero pressure", letting the blade do it's thing.

Well I was the person who said I draw blood on every shave.

I don't like to give up on new things too easily, (so despite what I said in a previous post above) I am doing further testing with the Guard this week. I just completed shave 3 (of a planned 5) on a new cartridge.

I am 100% sure the drawing blood issue is a technique error. I think I was fairly sloppy on my shaves with the first cartridge.

I still have gotten a few minor weepers around the corners of my lip with this current cartridge, but overall I have been getting nice quality shaves.

I may have to update my overall thoughts about the adequacy of the Guard; I still think the handle is way too lightweight though.

[Pauldog]

I'm hoping to get more Guards and blades at a better price from someone in India. I'm sending him stuff I have, and he's sending me stuff easily available there.

I don't see how you can use zero pressure on a razor this light. I just pay close attention to the pressure I'm applying.

The skin on my face must be fairly tough, since I'm not drawing any blood, but there are razor/blade combinations that will draw blood. They tend to involve double edge blades and too much pressure.

I weighted two Guard razors, one with tiny stones (total wt. 0.5 oz), and one with tiny nails (total wt 1.0 oz), plugging the end with epoxy:
http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=536623

But the head doesn't gain any heft this way. I don't think it hurts the shave to have more weight, and I wouldn't mind having a little more weight.

[brothers]

I don't see how you can use zero pressure on a razor this light. I just pay close attention to the pressure I'm applying.

I tend to agree, trying to apply zero pressure, and actually shaving at the same time is the tricky part. I'm sure that there is some pressure, of course, but I'm having to think about holding back any more pressure than absolutely necessary, knowing that any razor can cut under the wrong set of circumstances.

Today's shave with my Guard should be #5 on this cartridge, but even on #4, I wasn't sure if it was going to make it. I might have to toss it and go to cart #2.

Edit: post-shave. I've just enjoyed shave #5 with the first cart very much. No problems. I'll change the cart now, since I'm not trying to set any records or anything. If anything, this shave was as smooth as the first four, and maybe even a bit moreso, considering I've had a few shaves to kind of get the hang of it.

Good razor and good blade. The Guard, in my opinion, is not deserving of any contempt. It's just different. Meanwhile, back to reality, I'm looking forward to locating a couple of hard-to-find old Gillette razors over the next year, and adding them to my normal rotation of straight and DE razors full time. Maybe I'll add the Guard too!

[brothers]

This morning following a good Guard shave, I decided to fill the handle with as much weight as possible going into the second cartridge for shaves 6 through ?.

I found a bolt that was as wide as possible, and still a smaller diameter than the inside of the hollow handle. I determined how long it needed to be, and then I ground off the head of the bolt, and slightly ground down the opposite end of the bolt that needed to fit snugly inside the smallest part of the opening in the handle.

I mixed up some plastic epoxy and dropped a couple of dollops down into the opening, to fill the cavity about half full. I then inserted the narrow end of the bolt down into the cavity containing the liquid epoxy. I then dropped more epoxy down on top of the bolt until the epoxy was just a smidgen below the overflow point.

I gently tapped the handle to eliminate a couple of bubbles that had risen up through the liquid epoxy, and the project passed my visual approval. Then I carefully hung it on the bulletin board on a push pin where it now resides for 24 hours until the epoxy finishes hardening.

Weights:
Handle + cart (hollow) .5 ounce
Bolt (after grinding to size) .75 ounce
Epoxy .15 ounce
Handle + cart + bolt + epoxy 1.4 ounce
Net gain in weight .9 ounce

It'll be fun to see how it shaves tomorrow.

[themba]

That is a great idea. With a piece of lead that size you could probably get more weight. Something for Pauldog to try out.

[Pauldog]

Themba's remark just nudged me into science project mode.

Since lead is less than 50% more dense than iron, switching to lead would add roughly another 1/3 oz.

Here are a bunch of razors I dug out of my bathroom drawer, in order of weight:

Guard (stock) 0.2 oz (not sure how "brothers" gets 0.5 oz here)
Guard (tiny stones) 0.5
Guard (tiny nails) 1.0
Schick Protector 1.0
Schick Tracer FX 1.0
Gillette Tech 1.0 (bakelite handle)
Schick adj inj 1.1 (Type L should be very similar)
Lord 3-piece DE 1.2
Gillette Techmatic 1.3 (w/Schick cartridge, not that there's anything wrong with that!)
Mach 3 1.3
Wilkinson Classic DE 1.5
Ming Shi 1.8
Gillette NEW 1.8
Schick sp. ed. inj 1.9 (Int'l Silver "Paul Revere" model - long metal handle)
Gem "G" bar 2.2
Merkur slant bar 2.7


One thing about "modern" vs "classical" razors - except for Trac II, which had some heft in the head, blade razors tend to have a lot more weight in the head than cartridge razors. Possible exceptions on this list would be the Lord and the Wilkinson Classic, and they still have heavier heads than almost any cartridge razor.

My heaviest Guard is comparable to, say, the Schick Tracer FX, and I would expect them to have almost identical weight distribution. (And I bet that the Guard will fail the same way as my Tracers have failed - by breakdown of one of the pins that holds the cartridge.)

If you took a stock Guard razor and somehow had a relatively heavy cartridge, you'd have something comparable to the Schick model L injector or the Gillette Tech with the bakelite handle.

It's only with disposable razors - or with the Guard - that you have a combination of light handle with light head. Weighting the handle makes the Guard similar to regular cartridge razors.

[The other lesson I learned from this exercise is that razors apparently breed in drawers, but I have no idea which is the child of which. At least nobody here will ask me to explain why I have "that many" razors within a couple of feet of where I shave. Here, this kind of thing is perfectly normal, and is even more normal because several of them don't have a blade installed.]

[brothers]

Paul, great info! I used my trusty 35 year old Pelouze Made in USA postage scale, (mechanical, as opposed to electronic) so there you go! Another example of YMMV I suppose.

Last evening when I was intending to replace the Guard's 1st cartridge, I paused for a second, and made a command decision. I decided to take this opportunity to load a brand new (vintage NIB) Trac II (Gillette made) cartridge onto the Trac II and let it run for the next 5 (or so) shaves, rather than plowing headlong with the same razor until I grow weary and finally go to the other.

The Trac II with cartridge loaded weighs 1 ounce. No hollow handle, of course.

I've had zero cuts, irritation, bumps, ingrowns, or any other issues with the skin whatsoever, after 5 days of shaving exclusively with the Guard. Wouldn't it be nice if I can say the same thing about the Trac II a week from now?

[Pauldog]

I used my trusty 35 year old Pelouze Made in USA postage scale, (mechanical, as opposed to electronic)

There's a trick I use to weigh a very light object, because most scales (mechanical or electronic) are generally not too accurate with very low weights. The trick is to weigh the light object together with a heavier object, and then subtract the weight of the heavier one. Repeat the process 2 or 3 times to make sure you're getting consistent results.

And, frankly, I'm not sure either of our numbers for the unweighted Guard is all that accurate. When I weigh the unweighted Guard alone, the scale stays at zero.

[Pauldog]

I've had zero cuts, irritation, bumps, ingrowns, or any other issues with the skin whatsoever, after 5 days of shaving exclusively with the Guard. Wouldn't it be nice if I can say the same thing about the Trac II a week from now?

You might, if there were such a thing as a single blade Trac II cartridge (without a "bump fighter" guard)!

Themba made one for himself:
http://shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=532719

[bernards66]

Gary, Just as an aside to your original post, my fervant hope is that, regardless of what they decide to do with the Guard in the US, that it fails utterly in India because that would help assure that DE blades will continue to be produced for that large market.
Regards,
Gordon

[brothers]

Gary, Just as an aside to your original post, my fervant hope is that, regardless of what they decide to do with the Guard in the US, that it fails utterly in India because that would help assure that DE blades will continue to be produced for that large market.
Regards,
Gordon

Right on, Gordon. They make no secret about their objective of eliminating the DE blade.