Cutting with, across, and against grain.

[marsom]

Hi I am new to this forum and would like to ask a commonly asked question regarding grain. Chris, I read your straight razor guide and enjoyed it much. I currently shave using Charles Robert's Method and really get great results doing so. I don't know how much you know about the Robert's method, but we do not cut with the grain, we cut specific forms.

Sometimes, I desire to just use a good shaving soap or cream, but am not able to cut the Robert's Method forms in doing so. The main question that I am asking is how do you follow the grain and then cut across it and finally against it when you have a beard that grows in many differents directions and have extremely sensitive skin? It seems like I would be cutting in a hundred different directions. I find it really difficult to get a perfectly close shave without any irritation. I use a Simpson's Persian Jar 3 Silvertip and a Merkur Progress razor.

Most would say, "if the Roberts Method works for you, stick to it." Well, I certainly prefer the Roberts Method, because it really does work for me well and do intend to stick with it. On the other hand, I would like to learn how to get that perfect shave using a mimimun of products (brush, blade, soap or cream.)

Maybe, the straight razor has something to do with it. I don't know. I would really like to have your input on this. Thanks a million.

Marion

[AceHarddrive]

Y'know, Chris, since Charles Roberts has an article on his site entitled "Don't Fear the Double Edge," maybe your guide should have been called "Never Fear the Single Edge!" I must say, you certainly do clean up good! I've meant to tell ya this before, but I really like your avatar! Very...Presidential (or at least Congressional)!

~Tim

[bernards66]

Marion, Well, there is something to be said for, " if it ain't broke, don't fix it ". but I can appreciate your interest in somewhat simplifying your routine, and/or number of products. Or, just general curiosity, for that matter. Most of us 'cut on form', it's just that the forms vary, depending on the nature of our whiskers and skin. Chris' forms, for example, are the pretty classic barbershop, straight razor, cuts, but in a slightly simplified form. The way he does it is based on his understanding of his own beard. I can use the 'forms' that you're probably using, but I get better results using the sequence of passes that I've developed, based on my experiance shaving myself, over the years. FWIW, using the RMWS schematic, I repeat 'form #1' twice, then a personal variation, similiar to 'form #2'. While the 'grain' of your beard may not be utterly uniform, down to the last whisker, there usually is a dominant growth direction on different areas of your face. My beard grows generally downward, except for the mid area of the neck, where it grows outward ( and slightly upward ) from the center line. If you run the back of your hand lightly over your face in different directions, you should be able to get a sense of the dominant direction of the growth in different sections. Regards, Gordon

[AceHarddrive]

Chris, I'm posting two pics found in the SRP files section, probably taken from a barbering text, showing how to shave a person. I'm assuming that since these were the only two diagrams posted, the first must be considered the first pass, and the second, the second pass (I'll label them as such). I know we usually do: first pass = with the "grain," second pass = across/oblique to the "grain," third pass = against the "grain." However, you will note that in comparing these two pics, that in some areas, the second pass is across/oblique to the "grain," other areas are shown to be shaved against the "grain," and still others are continuing to be shaved with the "grain." Strange, huh? I think these diagrams (if reworked a bit) would be of more use than Charles Roberts cutting sheets, which seem to show someone (who looks remarkably like Patrick Stewart, from Star Trek: The Next Generation) being shaved only in the upper facial area (cheeks, upper and lower lip), but also in the upper chest area. Maybe I'm not seeing it as I should, but these diagrams seem to show the shave more clearly.

~Tim

[Sam]

Chris: at first glance, i thought that was a dan quayle avatar. my beard kinda grows outward on my neck, maybe just below the chin. i do some with grain and against grain passes. with my DE, i try to shave crossways, face and neck, in each direction. then i try to bladebuff with and against grain on neck. by blade buffing, i mean that i try to lessen the aggressive setting of my DE razor to something less, and then lightly go quickly back and forth over the same patch. lately, i relax the face as i do this and it seems to get more stubble

sam

[AceHarddrive]

I remodeled the shaving diagram I posted in the gallery and added blood-red arrows to show the direction of beard growth on my face. Any tips/advice on how I should shave this (areas to shave first/last...)? If anyone wants a "clean" (no arrows) pic to use in making a record of their own beard direction, I'll be happy to post a clean one!
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Just posted a clean diagram in my gallery.



~Tim

[Sam]

Tim: well chris is right (and no insult intended on the quayle reference, but hey, i respect him). you have to find what works on you. start off with a with the grain pass. that is go from top of cheeks down to chin, and from jawline down to neck. generally should give no irritation. then, and if you have an adjustable, great, dial it to less aggressive, shave in the opposite directions. this should get the bulk of stubble on everyone. now, i have to go crossways in each direction and then a hodgepodge on touch up.

some things i have learned:

1: you just get used to your face and do it without thinking. you just start to know when the stubble disappears and when something works, your arms kinda just remember it

2: your face seems to adapt. i never would have thought it, but for all my passes other than touch up, i use the most aggressive setting on my vision, similar to using a straight razor.

sam

[AceHarddrive]

[quote="tngentleman1"start off with a with the grain pass. that is go from top of cheeks down to chin, and from jawline down to neck.[/quote]

Sam, as you will note, because my cheek hair does not grow straight down, to do a with the grain pass, I would have to go in a sort of horizontal direction, Unless you were telling me to begin by shaving from top of cheeks to chin... while shaving in a sorta horizontal direction?
Have you noticed that NONE of the emoticons have even a mustache?

~Tim

[Sam]

Tim: that is where u gotta learn your face. a true north to south pass is just a starting point. for me, i could skip it. it is not that it takes a lot of hair off for me even with the vision open its widest to expose more blade. but it is a routine and just sets my skin up i am guessing for more trauma to follow. you could go horizontal for the first pass. notice that i make a lot of passes. going north to south shears off a lot of hair, and so it lets the brush with lather kinda get the remaining stubble to stand up more (this is just conjecture).

so, experiment on the strokes. heck, it took me 4 or more months to get the hang of a DE

sam