lady's shops/bath boutiques carrying men's stuff

[Sam]

i was in destin, florida, on vacation and we stopped into one of those niche lady's boutique and bath shops. for some reason, they feel that they must carry a men's line or some small amount of men's shave supplies. at one place, it was jack black only, and at another, it was some baxter products and some l'occitane products

by the way, gordon, i got a big bar of the claus porto lime/basil soap (no violet there) and it smells great. soaps up wonderfully.

i talked to one owner of a store and she was telling me she was gonna carry Art of Shaving. i just about begged her to carry taylors or trumpers. she told me her ex-boyfriend loves trumpers and would stock up on his trips to london and she could daydream about how he smelt. she asked where i got mine and i told her the gentlemens shop. she told me she had a problem importing it and AoS was easier to work with. i told her they were overpriced for what they did, and she was gonna carry brushes from them as well. i told her that with taylors, she would have a lower price point for men undecided about moving up to premium products, and there were brushes she could sell that were just as good as AoS and a bit less. i think she was interested in what i had to say, but was not going to change as they feel that only men who would spend money would buy anything from these types of shops anyway.

sam

[Classyjack]

Todd: I couldn't agree with you more! I don't know how many weeks I've been waiting for Trumpers, London to send me some cologne samples. No soaps, no creams, just a couple of cologne samples, for goodness sake! If the products weren't so great, I would instruct them over there on what part of the anatomy they could kiss.

They just don't know how to push, to merchandise, to sell. Wonderful products, though. Best, John.

[bernards66]

Todd, Well, there's a lot of truth in what you said, and I've always assumed that that is why the dept. stores gleefully signed up for AOS, and dropped any traditional lines that they may have carried. But, there is another side to it. I've had the kind of interchange that Sam described many, many times, mostly with small specialty shop owners, and with a few dept. store managers as well. One of my main points has always been that I seek out 'specialty' shops for, well, specialties. I don't go to these places for stuff I can get in numerous chain dept. stores. Why bother? There is only one really good small gentlemen's clothing shop left in Tampa. For years I pestered them about their lack of any top end men's grooming products. Then one day, I went in, and they were beaming. Voila! Here it is! Art of Shaving! I just sadly shook my head and told them that was not what I had in mind, and why. They looked crestfallen when I told them that AOS was available in half a dozen other places in town, and why would anyone go out of their way to buy it there? An essentially ladies spa and beauty products shop on the south side of town, however, eventually heeded my pleas, and brought in T&H. Which leds me to my secong point. T&H North America has know cranked up an American style 'efficent' operation, based in part on AOS, so it's not difficult to deal with them at least. I've heard that Taylors is generally prompt and 'businesslike' despite being old and being in London. And, I must point out that I've been in numerous shops in NYC that sell one or more of these traditional English lines. They manage somehow. No, I can understand the corporate chains going for the easiest route, regardsless, but from small private shops, I expect something more. Regards, Gordon

[lint]

Do you really feel like being so rude to them because they aren't sending you free samples fast enough? You might try ordering something you do want from them and asking if a sample of something else that you might be interested in could be included.

I was thinking the same thing. I have requested samples before, but I honestly dont excpect anything in return. If I do get something from the company, the very first thing I do is call or email them to thank them for their kindness. If I try the product and I like it or purchase some, I also let them know that It was a direct result of their kindness in sending me a sample.

todd

[Sam]

trumpers sent mine out, and sent a LOT. you may have to check with them to remind them. there was one guy from trumpers who told me who to contact there.

gordon, we have a couple of high end men's places and they too carry stuff that i can get at macys. one does carry art of shaving and there is only one or two other places that carry AOS complete lines. a couple of stores may have gotten a cream or two in by accident, lol. we have one specialty store in town that i asked them about this and they ended up getting anthony logistics, which at least is a step in the right direction. i am afraid it may be a combination of factors.

1. guys like us, are a small, small minority. the stereotype of the guy that baths and washes his hair with bar soap is prevalent.
2. dealing with british firms vs. american firms, and big companies vs. companies that have done it their way for centuries
3. price levels, in both the importing charges and shipping attendant to foreign goods, vs., in specialty stores, trying to find a men's line whose price is equivalent to a ladie's line.

sam

[Classyjack]

Chris and Todd: I have received samples, and samples alone, from many major top-shelf vendors: Penhaligon's, Floris, T& H, heck, Taylor's in London even made up some special sample vials for me. These vendors are PLEASED to send out their samples ONLY, knowing that such exposure to the customer will result in a sale. And it has! I have also BOUGHT plently of Trumper products: creams, soaps, and a cologne- all from secondary vendors. Charles at QED was kind enough to send me one Trumper sample, and I will buy my Trumper, if at all, from him.

There are many British companies, however, that are simply asleep when it comes to sales.

By the way, thanks for the tips on etiquette. Best, John.

[bernards66]

Todd, I have no doubt that the ladies spa here wound up getting with T&H North America for those reasons, because I gave them the address and phone #, and told them about how T&H would be "easy to deal with". I did this because I knew it was my only hope of them getting in anything decent ( as I said, I've been around this block with a lot of shop owners ). You know, though, this same shop has brought in some pretty esoteric lines of women's products, and scents, which I doubt have exactly flew off the shelves either. With the gentlemen's stuff though, they're generally more ignorant, and less willing. I maintain my point though, for a high end specialty store to bring in a line that's available in half the dept. stores in town, is simply pointless, in my opinion. Better to at least try something else. And yes, firms like Trumper, and especially D R Harris seem somewhat "disinterested" in amping up their US sales, hiring marketing people etc, and it's probably just as well. They couldn't maintain the quality level at a greatly expanded volumn, anyway. Harris's has been a successful business for over two hundred years, so I guess they know a thing or two about how they need to conduct their affairs. Personally, I think that the way most American business is conducted today is nothing but a guarantee of low quality and a lack of real service. Most Europeans wouldn't even drink the crud that's sold as 'tea' and 'coffee' in this country. As I said, I've seen these English lines in many small shops in NYC, and not just shops with a major emphasis on traditional shaving. Shops where such products are only a small part of their business, but they've got this stuff anyway. So, I know that it can be done, and that apparently, it's not totally non-profitable to do so. In a metropolitan area as big as Tampa Bay, one would think that a lest a couple of shops would carry a little of some of these products, but since 2000, no one does. So, I continue to mail order everything, although I'd prefer to give the business to local merchants. To hell with them. Regards, Gordon

[Sam]

well, i tried to talk stores in memphis to carry stuff. one of ours, zoes if u know the store, now carries anthony and it is a hit, and i tried to tell them baxter would do well, and also trumpers and taylors. they want a complete line and something that has the buzz of GQ. one store carries kiehls

well, about 5 months ago, our local mens store, oak hall, started carrying T & H. i made it a point to congratulate the owner and told him i would help him if he wanted to expand mens skin care products.

sam

[bernards66]

Evening, "The press", quite so. But their finer colognes are now history, and I can't help but wonder if they will/can maintain a high quality level in their other products, beyond a certain point, of expansion. I hope so. Regards, Gordon

[Sam]

gordon, i had forgotten all about the newer versions of the classic T&H colognes. wonder if there is a american supplier vs. handmade batches in england? anyone check with robert at the gentlemens shop do see?

both of our upscale mens stores here give short, short shrift to the mens grooming. however, i go to our local ladies fu-fu store and they say that men are buying stuff there all the time. they get l'occitane, now anthony logistics, molton brown, etc, etc. one store says men love their kiehls line. i am almost inclined to ask one of the mens stores if i could set up a kiosk and market trumpers if i could get it, or taylors. have a saturday clinic with a barber and offer shaves and shoe shines (maybe the barber would cut his prices a little to drum himself up some business).

sam

[guenron]

Evening, "The press", quite so. But their finer colognes are now history, and I can't help but wonder if they will/can maintain a high quality level in their other products, beyond a certain point, of expansion. I hope so. Regards, Gordon

Greetings Gordon!
There exists a channel on cable, something like the Living Channel or High Quality Living Channel or some such cache, the carries a show Mens Catalogue or Catalogue for Men hmmm.. At anyrate they showcased the Head of T&H NA on this show, along with T&H products and services. Yes, now with the help of the media, T&H is the Good Life....

[Sam]

ron: was that the fine living channel. they have shows called the manual and the genuine article. the latter had a show with trumpers once

sam

[guenron]

ron: was that the fine living channel. they have shows called the manual and the genuine article. the latter had a show with trumpers once

sam

By Jove, that's the ticket!
There is a cure for dementia, it's called Sam!
They also had some other lad on who insisted on wearing a sporty cap during the entire interview, even though it was all indoors.
Good stuff though on manicure, etc... One nice gentlemens club... I enjoyed watching it. Wished there were some of the services nearby(Less than 200 miles).

[tigert]

I saw T&H on the style channel recently also, it was a show for women about what gifts to buy for the men in their lives and it had the editor from cargo magazine choosing the gifts.. he showed some T&H products and called the brush a silver badger brush instead of silvertip.. it was pretty funny

[guenron]

I saw T&H on the style channel recently also, it was a show for women about what gifts to buy for the men in their lives and it had the editor from cargo magazine choosing the gifts.. he showed some T&H products and called the brush a silver badger brush instead of silvertip.. it was pretty funny

While the level of ignorance is comical, at least they are trying! Hopefully they will try hard enough that one day soon it will not be out fo the ordinary for a city of 100K to have a Specialty Shaving Shop with one or two ranges of kit and consumables.

[bernards66]

Sam, I've communicated directly with T&H in London. They informed me that the cologne formulas were changed, "...two or three years ago...", Although, personally, I think two years ago, or a little less is problably closer to the mark. They insist that the change is total. They offered to sell me some of the original Spanish Leather, as they still had some around for "..an old Spanish custome...", but there was no more original Freshman or Clubman ( I declined the SL, as I have a bottle of it, it was the other two that I was after ). Robert originally had some doubts that these colognes had been changed, but through inquiry and our exchange, came to realize that they had, in fact, been rather radically altered. Ron, Yeah, the chap on that piece was presumabley Guy Cartwright, CEO of T&H North America. Harvard Business School, don't ye know. They're definately into 'marketing'. As I said, I don't find the 'updating' of the classic T&H colognes very encouraging vis a vis the long term maintainance of their traditional level of quality. Regards, Gordon