In reference to:
http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18871
I'm not the oldest member of this group, and I haven't been around long enough to know all the dirty details of the Great Schism, nor do I really care. I like this form better than the "other forum" because I have always good, friendly answers to my newbie questions, and it seems less regimented here.
But I think that if you want to attract new members, saying things like "use the search" or "look around" is not welcoming. Newbies are going to do newbie things like ignore the search feature (which often returns too many results to be useful for certain topics), and not look through the week's past postings before asking questions.
It is easy to see how this newbie missed the previous days discussion of the same topic because the title of the previous day's thread was equally ambiguous. I don't expect a newbie to have have clicked the "Is there such a thing as..." thread if he were looking for shavette specific info because the title of the thread does not speak of its contents.
I'm not trying to call out anyone in particular, because I think that all parties involved could have handled the situation better.
What sort of forum do you want to be?
Re: What sort of forum do you want to be?
I think all the mods do their best to try and help newbs. The forum can't control each persons answers but as a group we can certainly try our best to help each new member. If I was new to forums I wouldn't know where to begin let alone use the search option. I don't think the repsonse was meant in a bad way at all. As a member of multiple forums there are members who will not feel like retyping something that was recently discussed. If a new member were to use the search option they'd probably get a lot more answers by researching instead of one thread. Had I been that new member I don't think I would've stormed off like he did. I probably would've asked for the link he was referring to so I could find the information I was looking for.
Over the past 3 years SMF has developed the kind of forum we wish to be and I don't there is a member here who isn't willing to help someone out. There are probably very few " use the search option" responses and I'd be willing to bet it would be less than 20 with over 200k articles.
Forums that offer the same content often offer a different feel. It all depends on where you start, who you're comfortable with and what you lilke. I think the members and moderators know what type of forum we are and that's why we choose to come back.
J
Over the past 3 years SMF has developed the kind of forum we wish to be and I don't there is a member here who isn't willing to help someone out. There are probably very few " use the search option" responses and I'd be willing to bet it would be less than 20 with over 200k articles.
Forums that offer the same content often offer a different feel. It all depends on where you start, who you're comfortable with and what you lilke. I think the members and moderators know what type of forum we are and that's why we choose to come back.
J
Last edited by Johnnie on Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Johnnie
Keep it Wet
Keep it Wet
I tend to agree. I think we should realize that many people, and especially newbies, are not going to be reading every thread in the forums. Yes, if you are going to post something, it is a good idea to look around to see if the same thing has been asked recently. But I also think it is pretty forgivable to miss it.
More importantly, as the title of this thread implies, one of the great things about this forum is that it is a friendly, welcoming place. Upbraiding newbies for having missed something is maybe not along the path to being the kind of place we want to be.
Usually what I see when someone posts a redundant post, which actually seems to happen not THAT infrequently, and is not just done newbies, is that someone politely points the second poster toward the first thread, and discussion moves there. There is no need for this not to be done in a kind, friendly way. The newbie, if it is one, will still get the message. Plus the much more important message of what kind of atmosphere we have here, and how the gentlemen here post.
-Mo
Edit: Having reread the thread, I would not like to imply that the first reply was particularly rude, or out of character, or anything like that. And the newbie's response definitely was not on the level one would hope. Just that the thread spiraled very much downhill, which perhaps would not have happened if everyone involved had tried a little harder.
More importantly, as the title of this thread implies, one of the great things about this forum is that it is a friendly, welcoming place. Upbraiding newbies for having missed something is maybe not along the path to being the kind of place we want to be.
Usually what I see when someone posts a redundant post, which actually seems to happen not THAT infrequently, and is not just done newbies, is that someone politely points the second poster toward the first thread, and discussion moves there. There is no need for this not to be done in a kind, friendly way. The newbie, if it is one, will still get the message. Plus the much more important message of what kind of atmosphere we have here, and how the gentlemen here post.
-Mo
Edit: Having reread the thread, I would not like to imply that the first reply was particularly rude, or out of character, or anything like that. And the newbie's response definitely was not on the level one would hope. Just that the thread spiraled very much downhill, which perhaps would not have happened if everyone involved had tried a little harder.
Alrighty, stickim up and hand over the Coates real nice and slow like....
I think maybe a sticky on how to use the search funtction would help. Typing in "shaving cream" will obviously give you page upon page of results. If you are looking for info. on trumper limes that is what you may punch in. Alternatively you can try Geo F Trumper Limes, GFT Limes etc. Toggling the "search all terms" under the search box helps. Lastly, even if you get several pages on a search, you can breeze through pages quickly because your search terms will be highlighted within whatever post they are found. That said, I don't mind pointing someone to a thread on occasion. 
Erik
"Work like you don't need money,
love like you've never been hurt,
and dance like no one is watching."
Aurora Greenway
"Work like you don't need money,
love like you've never been hurt,
and dance like no one is watching."
Aurora Greenway
The sort of forum we want to have is one where beginners are welcome and helped. I think we achieve this quite handily. I am impressed at the general quality of replies to new members here, and take no credit for this, but award it to the generosity of our members in general.
The sort of members we like are those willing to do their part. Would you dream of asking a question without searching for the topic first? I wouldn't, simply because I don't like to appear to be an incompetent idiot (whatever the truth of the matter). To make a second post of the kind that member made is plain rude. You don't talk to people that way, nor should you post that way. I can see that the answer to the original question could be taken as being a bit short, but I would not have taken it as such, being aware of the deficiencies of written communication.
In short, I don't think the thread to which you refer, Dave, is representative of the typical exchange with newbies. We can all take some consolation in that.
Chris
The sort of members we like are those willing to do their part. Would you dream of asking a question without searching for the topic first? I wouldn't, simply because I don't like to appear to be an incompetent idiot (whatever the truth of the matter). To make a second post of the kind that member made is plain rude. You don't talk to people that way, nor should you post that way. I can see that the answer to the original question could be taken as being a bit short, but I would not have taken it as such, being aware of the deficiencies of written communication.
In short, I don't think the thread to which you refer, Dave, is representative of the typical exchange with newbies. We can all take some consolation in that.
Chris
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
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Sam
- M'Learned Friend
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It gets hard to compile comments on a topic, and then to point a newbie to one particular thread. Say we talk about Taylors Rose cream, and how the new cream differs from the old. It could be one particular thread titled Taylors Rose, or it could be contained in a thread where we started off talking about Trumpers rose creams.
I have gone to other forums and tried to search first, but I get hit or misses with it at times. Some are nice (Brighthand.com for my Palm PDA) and some can be rude (Askandyaboutclothes.com at times for newbies).
I think for the most part we are friendly to new guys and someone jumps up to the task to answer the question posed, even if it is the 3rd time one day. Sometimes we fall short of being super friendly, but for the most part, this is the most enjoyable forum of any I have gone to. In fact, I am loathe to invite guys from other forums because I never know if they would muck it up.
Sam
I have gone to other forums and tried to search first, but I get hit or misses with it at times. Some are nice (Brighthand.com for my Palm PDA) and some can be rude (Askandyaboutclothes.com at times for newbies).
I think for the most part we are friendly to new guys and someone jumps up to the task to answer the question posed, even if it is the 3rd time one day. Sometimes we fall short of being super friendly, but for the most part, this is the most enjoyable forum of any I have gone to. In fact, I am loathe to invite guys from other forums because I never know if they would muck it up.
Sam
I agree with Chris. I'd not join a forum and ask a question without trying to search out my own answers first. If that didn't work I'd maybe ask then, but it seems that with a little effort I can find answers and then ask questions if what I find on my own doesn't answer them. Coming here and asking 'Are Feather blades sharp' or something is just asking to be ridiculed, shamed and given the Chalice of Balding.
~Tye
~Tye
Contributing Member to the Cause
I admit, I'm guilty of going hog-wild posting a rash of new ideas right off the bat at new forums, right after I join. It's just sooo ... FUN ...
I should read the posting guidelines, I know. I should double-check the search function to make sure the questions I ask, and the topics I raise, haven't been covered ad infinitum before I bring them up again. I know, I know ... but, ya know, it's the internet, I get carried away, I just kinda do my thing.
No, seriously now ...
... I think the "guidelines" and "rules" pages should be kind of prevalent, and kind of multi-colored. "Read this" is certainly something we all pass through before registering -- probably had to put a tick-mark next to it, if I remember correctly -- but we tend to ignore things like that, humans being, after all, only human. Nothing wrong with the guidelines popping up at the top of things all over again.
BTW, I got banned from the "other" place. Still don't know what I did. Maybe it had something to do with that avatar image I was asked to change here. Dunno.
Maybe I'm just ungentlemanly.
I should read the posting guidelines, I know. I should double-check the search function to make sure the questions I ask, and the topics I raise, haven't been covered ad infinitum before I bring them up again. I know, I know ... but, ya know, it's the internet, I get carried away, I just kinda do my thing.
No, seriously now ...
... I think the "guidelines" and "rules" pages should be kind of prevalent, and kind of multi-colored. "Read this" is certainly something we all pass through before registering -- probably had to put a tick-mark next to it, if I remember correctly -- but we tend to ignore things like that, humans being, after all, only human. Nothing wrong with the guidelines popping up at the top of things all over again.BTW, I got banned from the "other" place. Still don't know what I did. Maybe it had something to do with that avatar image I was asked to change here. Dunno.
Maybe I'm just ungentlemanly.
I read the referenced thread and agree that the response, while not necessarily ill intentioned, could come off as unwelcoming to a new member, as evidenced by Scarlatti's departure and -- much more to the point -- underscored by the response to it.
I'll also take this opportunity to volunteer that I find off-putting postings that either state or imply that, "Well, I don't particularly care for the thing you like, but that's because I've been around and know about the truly good stuff." Or even, “You take umbrage at the benign satirical genius of Corey Greenburg because you lack the requisite subtlety.” I propose a new acronym -- "YMIG," as in "Your Mileage Is Gauche."
Despite our self confidence, the question daveshaves asks, "What kind of forum do we want to be?" is apropos. It's always good to assume that we have certain blind spots that need a reality check every so often.
Doug
PS: Yes, I know: "If you don't like it, then leave and start your own forum."
I'll also take this opportunity to volunteer that I find off-putting postings that either state or imply that, "Well, I don't particularly care for the thing you like, but that's because I've been around and know about the truly good stuff." Or even, “You take umbrage at the benign satirical genius of Corey Greenburg because you lack the requisite subtlety.” I propose a new acronym -- "YMIG," as in "Your Mileage Is Gauche."
Despite our self confidence, the question daveshaves asks, "What kind of forum do we want to be?" is apropos. It's always good to assume that we have certain blind spots that need a reality check every so often.
Doug
PS: Yes, I know: "If you don't like it, then leave and start your own forum."
And the time honored: "You're here at the invitation of Vince". That one always makes me laugh.DEF wrote:I read the referenced thread and agree that the response, while not necessarily ill intentioned, could come off as unwelcoming to a new member, as evidenced by Scarlatti's departure and -- much more to the point -- underscored by the response to it.
I'll also take this opportunity to volunteer that I find off-putting postings that either state or imply that, "Well, I don't particularly care for the thing you like, but that's because I've been around and know about the truly good stuff." Or even, “You take umbrage at the benign satirical genius of Corey Greenburg because you lack the requisite subtlety.” I propose a new acronym -- "YMIG," as in "Your Mileage Is Gauche."
Despite our self confidence, the question daveshaves asks, "What kind of forum do we want to be?" is apropos. It's always good to assume that we have certain blind spots that need a reality check every so often.
Doug
PS: Yes, I know: "If you don't like it, then leave and start your own forum."
~Tye
Contributing Member to the Cause
I actually do accept the forum precepts; it's the prerogative of the ownership & administration. With all the server space that he pays for, Vince can invite or uninvite whomever he wants. (I think I'm correct that this is on Vince's dime.)
I think it's an inevitable part of the forum life cycle that over time the membership will stratify into the seasoned old-timers, the mid-bies (where I include myself), and the newbies. All the interesting stuff -- both fortunate and unfortunate -- happens where these groups interface. One thing I think we all need to keep in mind is this: When dealing with a lesser-experienced member, let's speak from an appreciation of where we've been (i.e., the other's shoes) versus an assertion of where we are now. It's a subtle distinction, but I think it makes a difference to a new member.
Doug
I think it's an inevitable part of the forum life cycle that over time the membership will stratify into the seasoned old-timers, the mid-bies (where I include myself), and the newbies. All the interesting stuff -- both fortunate and unfortunate -- happens where these groups interface. One thing I think we all need to keep in mind is this: When dealing with a lesser-experienced member, let's speak from an appreciation of where we've been (i.e., the other's shoes) versus an assertion of where we are now. It's a subtle distinction, but I think it makes a difference to a new member.
Doug
I too just read the referenced thread. The OP asked a very specific question, and even provided a pic. Not bad for a first post, in my mind anyway.
Hasn't most every possible topic having anything to do with wet shaving been discussed at SMF at length? If questions regarding an oft-discussed or concurrent topic from a new person are that offensive, why not just lock the entire board and make it a research-only website?
Perhaps a note of welcome, a link to a related thread, and a helpful hint pointing to the search function would be a nicer greeting to a new poster. I guarantee if I were welcomed here in such a fashion I would have been equally insulted.
As usual, and I am sure to no one's surprise, Dr. Moss's response to the OP was of the sort that continues to draw me to this site.
Did you notice that after the initial posts, a discussion actually ensued concerning the OP's subject matter? Perhaps not such a terrible first post afterall.
Hasn't most every possible topic having anything to do with wet shaving been discussed at SMF at length? If questions regarding an oft-discussed or concurrent topic from a new person are that offensive, why not just lock the entire board and make it a research-only website?
Perhaps a note of welcome, a link to a related thread, and a helpful hint pointing to the search function would be a nicer greeting to a new poster. I guarantee if I were welcomed here in such a fashion I would have been equally insulted.
As usual, and I am sure to no one's surprise, Dr. Moss's response to the OP was of the sort that continues to draw me to this site.
Did you notice that after the initial posts, a discussion actually ensued concerning the OP's subject matter? Perhaps not such a terrible first post afterall.
Danl
Blood is a big expense - Virgil "The Turk" Sollazzo
Blood is a big expense - Virgil "The Turk" Sollazzo
I gratefully accept the rebuke.DEF wrote:Or even, “You take umbrage at the benign satirical genius of Corey Greenburg because you lack the requisite subtlety.”
Tye, I'm glad we still bring humour into your life. It's true though, even for me. Vince waves his little finger and I'm gone. Fact of life.
Chris
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
the forum
While have not posted here often I like to read the forum quite a bit and I have found it to be one of the most, if not, the most welcoming forums on the net regardless of topic. With that being said, the thread in question did go south pretty quickly and it was not due to just one person. But then again, when you go to a new sandbox, in this day and age one cannot expect to have roses thrown at their feet upon arrival every time.
But as I mentioned before, this is the most polite and helpful forum I've ever posted on and I'm happy to be a small part of it.
But as I mentioned before, this is the most polite and helpful forum I've ever posted on and I'm happy to be a small part of it.
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Sam
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Shu, what a nice thing to say, and we appreciate your post. Please, allow us to address you by your first name, as we would like to be more collegial here. I am Sam, duh, LOL.
Sure, things get sidetracked but for the most part, we have fun, try to be helpful and every now and then, design ourselves a brush.
Sam
Sure, things get sidetracked but for the most part, we have fun, try to be helpful and every now and then, design ourselves a brush.
Sam
I do agree with your sentiment, Danny.
I admin a somewhat large forum away from here, and to borrow a term from yet another Internet hang-out, the place can get quite snarky. It is full of young people who simply do not care how they affect anyone else.
SMF is a very refreshing stop-off, at the very least, and it is definitely much more than that.
I admin a somewhat large forum away from here, and to borrow a term from yet another Internet hang-out, the place can get quite snarky. It is full of young people who simply do not care how they affect anyone else.
SMF is a very refreshing stop-off, at the very least, and it is definitely much more than that.
-
Sam
- M'Learned Friend
- Posts: 12017
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:13 am
- Location: memphis, tennessee
- Contact:
Oh, Danny, you are fine. You dont need to apologize. It's not like we have a sticky or anything and you have not posted as much, but putting a name with your posts, well, I sorta get the flavor of what kinda guy you are and if we ever had a convocation, I bet it would be easier to pick you out of a crowd.
Sam
Sam