Maestro Livi finally conquered

Use a straight. You know it makes sense.
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giammi
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Re: Maestro Livi misspells himself Mastro

Post by giammi » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:34 pm

lux wrote:misspells himself "Mastro" at Classing Shaving?
Lux,

mastro is also a correct wording. It is the naming for a "maestro" who is a specialised craftsman.

Maestro is mostly used for artists (musicians, composers etc.)

lux
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Thank you!

Post by lux » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:54 pm

Good evening fellow wet shavers,

Thank you very much, Giammi, for expanding my Italian.

Both versions are indeed in the dictionary.

Kind regards,

lux
Neither this, nor non-this, nor both, nor neither.
Regnare servire est.

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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:36 am

drmoss_ca wrote:Now I've found the question....

The answer is to be found here:
http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24070
and
http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27323

As you will read, it seems that the Spyderco fine and ultrafine hones vary their effective grit by means of the pattern machined into their surface: they have to, being made of the same ceramic. I lapped the UF into something very fine, but I have no way of knowing just how fine a grit it now simulates. My impression is that my 2" stone is finer than my 3" and I am still trying to find by trial and error where they best fit amongst the Shaptons.

Chris
I intend to read those threads, because I really like my UF.

Based on how you're using it, I assume yoou have concluded that its grit is at least as fine as 30K. Otherwise, you would be undoing the very fine work done by the 30K. I didn't want to go for the expense of the 30K, but I sure would be happy to get another UF and lap it smooth.

I haven't noticed the surface pattern you mentioned, but I have lapped my UF quite a bit. I now will look under magnification.
Joe

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Post by drmoss_ca » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:49 am

Joe,
The only way I can find the best place to fit the UF among the Shaptons is by trying to hone with it in different spots in the sequence, and comparing results. Not very scientific, but the best I can do. So far I am finding it works best if I treat it as a 12k hone. You will see I mentioned that my recent 3" hone does not have the surface markings that were so prominent on my 2" hone, bought about four years ago.

The Livi has continued to improve with nightly touch-ups on the chrome bench hone. It is a wonderful shaver now!

Chris
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace

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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:10 am

drmoss_ca wrote:The Livi has continued to improve with nightly touch-ups on the chrome bench hone. It is a wonderful shaver now!

Chris
I'm happy to hear that. There has always been some mystery for me regarding the occasional razor that just doesn't respond. It seems to be an excellent blade, but it just doesn't get there after a lot more effort than expected. I'm not sure it always has to do with hardness. I force myself to work more on the ones I know to be very hard. Usually, I loose patience with such a mystery razor and put it away for a later day.

Lately. I haven't had time to go back to any of those, but you have me thinking about it.
Joe

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Padron
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Post by Padron » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:55 am

Hi Chris and Joe,

I know you have both used 3 line Franz Swaty's a lot in the past.. I have several of these, how do you rate the Spyderco UF compared to the Swaty? I have been on the fence with adding the 304UF to my lineup, but based upon Chris's thoughts I am re-thinking this.

Or even and Escher hone vs the UF? I believe Tim Zowada or Robert Williams stated they thought the UF provided the finest scratch patterns...do you find this to be true in your experience as well?


Thanks!
Neale

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Joe Lerch
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Post by Joe Lerch » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:05 am

Padron wrote:Hi Chris and Joe,

I know you have both used 3 line Franz Swaty's a lot in the past.. I have several of these, how do you rate the Spyderco UF compared to the Swaty? I have been on the fence with adding the 304UF to my lineup, but based upon Chris's thoughts I am re-thinking this.

Or even and Escher hone vs the UF? I believe Tim Zowada or Robert Williams stated they thought the UF provided the finest scratch patterns...do you find this to be true in your experience as well?


Thanks!
Neale
First of all, I have done a lot of experimentation, but as a general proposition, I don't have the patience that chris does, and I follow a much shorter routine to hone and mantain my razors.

I will do a total honing routine only once on a razor, usual when I acquire it. After that, I do only touchups and stropping, for an indefinite time (at least 6 months). The touchups are with a Swaty, at the sink when stropping doesn't totally restore sharpness, and it is just a few swipes, usually less than 5. If that doesn't work I might do a little on a pasted strop (.5). That keeps most of my razors in fine shaving condition. I might be able to do better, but the effort is generally not worth it after that point.

I don't have a 30K hone, but I have a collection that goes up to 15K, plus a few yellow Belgians and an Escher. Unless I'm experiment ing I'll stop with one of those two and finish with a little bit on a .5 pasted strop. If I don't feel like messing around I'll use the UV dry. The results of an Escher feel a little better than the other two. But I haven't done the type of lapping that Chris does. I intend to try it.

In any case, the Swaty, Escher and UF are not equivalent. Swaty is the coarsest, maybe 8K and it is relatively fast, which makes it good for the touchup. I can't tell what the UF is, but I've always considered it finer than 12K. It seems finer than the Escher, but the Escher is faster and somehow it gives a sharp edge that feels soft on the face.

I don't hone by the numbers. I usuall don't know how many reps I do. As I prgress through the grits I monitor sharpness with my thumb pad, and I move on to a finer grit when I fail to see improvement. I find that my total reps are a lot less than most guys. THis may be because I let each grit do as much as it can before I move on to the next.

I would say this. Don't use too many hones. Test a blade to decide where you need to start: new edge or just sharpening. The majority of my Ebay acquisitions have require a new edge, because of oxidation. I sart with a 1K diamond until I get down to nice, clean metal. THen I use a 4K to build the edge until it is straight and even and passess the thumbnail test. I move up to 8K and get it as sharp as I can, and I finish on an Escher, then I might see if the .5 micron strop improves the edge any. I've used .25, but the edge becomes too delicate and requires too much touching up. Actually, right off the Escher the edge is usually fine and lasts longer than if I go to the pasted strop. I finish with light stropping on leather, maybe 20 reps to just clean and smooth the edge.

Once I get to the 4K, if I don't go to pasted strops I probably will not do much more than a total of 50-70 reps on all hones.
Joe

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Padron
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Post by Padron » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:23 am

Thanks Joe!

Great information, I have heard others say they believe the 3 line swaty's to be in the range of 12K as well...thats one of the reasons I have been hesitant to add the UF to my line up.

I think I will need to pick one up.

I have been getting great edges on my Livi's and other blades skipping the pastes and just stropping after a few passes on the escher so it's great too hear you have similar results.

Although, I am going to have to experiment more using Chris techniques as well....too bad I do not have any Shaptons :cry:

Thanks for the info, you have been missed! Great to see you here too :D

Neale

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