Open comb vs. "Standard" DE razor question

New to the world of wet-shaving? Grab a desk and be seated! Welcome to SMFU: A place to learn and compare notes about the ABC's of wet shaving. From brushes to creams, razors and more...We've got it all!
hoffo
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: Rancho Bernardo, CA USA

Open comb vs. "Standard" DE razor question

Post by hoffo »

Hi all,
I've been wetshaving for a few years but have always had a "Standard" closed-comb razor.
How different is the shave quality with an open-comb razor?
I want to find a French-made DE razor and they all seem to be of the open comb sort.

Thanks for your time,
Scott
Made with Macintosh!
User avatar
SRD
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:36 am
Location: Eastern Tennessee

Post by SRD »

Open combs are my favorite DE's. All of mine are Gillette News with a couple of Old styles thrown in. The only modern open that I have in my rotation is the Muehle R41. I enjoy that razor very much as well. In general I think the consensus is that the open comb is more aggressive than the closed. A few of my Gillette News are somewhat aggressive but I have been using them for so long that I guess I have just adjusted with technique. I do know that I use a LITTLE more pressure when I use the Fatboy, SS's, Merkur HD and British 66. Of course YMMV.
Dave
User avatar
druphus
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado USA

Post by druphus »

SRD wrote:Open combs are my favorite DE's. All of mine are Gillette News with a couple of Old styles thrown in. The only modern open that I have in my rotation is the Muehle R41. I enjoy that razor very much as well. In general I think the consensus is that the open comb is more aggressive than the closed. A few of my Gillette News are somewhat aggressive but I have been using them for so long that I guess I have just adjusted with technique. I do know that I use a LITTLE more pressure when I use the Fatboy, SS's, Merkur HD and British 66. Of course YMMV.
+1 to everything expressed; however, in addition to the Muhle R41 I also use a Merkur 1906 open-comb and both the original open-comb iKon and the 2010 iKon open-comb Bulldog
Regards,
Andy
hoffo
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: Rancho Bernardo, CA USA

Post by hoffo »

Thanks for the help!

I'll give one a shot - plenty to choose from! :)
Made with Macintosh!
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

I'm using a NEW, an Old Type, and a Merkur 12c Barberpole. I really like the way all of these shave. I had an extra Merkur 11c head and gave it to someone who is using it with a Georgian handle (now discontinued, I think?) and he loves it.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
hoffo
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: Rancho Bernardo, CA USA

Post by hoffo »

I just won a Leresche open-comb DE on eBay along with some NOS Leresche blades - hope it arrives soon to report my findings! Getting excited! :)

Thanks for the help!
Made with Macintosh!
notthesharpest
Assistant Dean SMFU
Posts: 9449
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:32 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Post by notthesharpest »

IMO discussing closed-comb vs open-comb as a shaving question is a mistake. It is mainly a razor-manufacturing question.

The quality of your shave is going to be based on geometry: the angle at which the blade is bent inside the razor head, the angle & curve of the upper cap, the length, position, and angle of the comb area, among others.

Whether the comb area is solid or toothed does contribute a little to a different feel on your face, but all those geometry issues are the same regardless.

The Gillette NEW is not a good design because of the open comb; it's a good design because they got the head geometry right. If you made a closed-comb version but with the same contours, it would shave essentially the same.

Some closed-comb razors can be ridiculously aggressive (Vision, Futur, others); some closed-comb razors can be ridiculously mild (late-model Techs) - the same applies to open comb, though there are fewer models to compare because they're not as easy to make.
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

Another example of a ridiculously aggressive closed comb Gillette Tech is the earliest version that is distinguished by the triangular shaped holes in the bottom plate of the head. It's not the holes that make the razor so aggressive, as Dave says, it's all in the geometry. Gillette fixed the problem with the geometry and as an indicator of the gentler head, the triangular shaped holes were replaced with rectangular holes.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
function
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:10 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Post by function »

brothers wrote:Another example of a ridiculously aggressive closed comb Gillette Tech is the earliest version that is distinguished by the triangular shaped holes in the bottom plate of the head.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it is ridiculously aggressive, in fact I think it is just right. To me the aggression is somewhere between my NEW and my Feather Portable, both of which I love. If you examine, you may notice this appears to be manufactured the same way as the NEW, and in fact the "cap" is interchangeable. If you have one chewing your face up I'd love to relieve you of it so I can have a backup.
Nick




Give me Lavender or give me death.
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

function wrote:
brothers wrote:Another example of a ridiculously aggressive closed comb Gillette Tech is the earliest version that is distinguished by the triangular shaped holes in the bottom plate of the head.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it is ridiculously aggressive, in fact I think it is just right. To me the aggression is somewhere between my NEW and my Feather Portable, both of which I love. If you examine, you may notice this appears to be manufactured the same way as the NEW, and in fact the "cap" is interchangeable. If you have one chewing your face up I'd love to relieve you of it so I can have a backup.
Mine was my father's only razor. He got it new, and never had another one. I remember him with bits of tissue paper on his face from time to time, and it was the first razor I ever used, when he taught me how to shave as a teenager. In high school I bought my own, a Slim adjustable.

Then I bought a new Krona around 1969 or thereabouts and used it until two years ago. Two years ago I retrieved his razor with triangular holes from the medicine chest where it had always resided at my mom's house. It was part of my SMF-generated kit that included the obligatory COBigelow SC, Tabac, etc., but it cut me relentlessly, about half the time. I decided it was defective, until I read on the forums that it has a reputation as being aggressive. So yes, it's far too aggressive.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
Gene
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Buda, TX

Post by Gene »

I have a Tech with the triangle-shaped slots -- it's from Canada, and has 1932 stamped on it. I also have a "traditional" Tech.

To me they shave fairly closely. Maybe the razor fromn Canada is a bit more aggressive....but certainly it's not overtly so.

I have been using an OC lately - an OLD or a NEW, I don't know. Gold, with a bar across the cap that the slot on the blade fits in for support. It's a better shave than I thought it would be...I don't really like OC razors because I can actually feel the teeth on my skin, where the bar just slides.

I also have a Merkur OC and really old German OC...but they've been out of the rotation for a while. I guess I should try them again soon. The German one is actually a travel razor that I mate with a Tech handle.
Gene

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Alan Moore
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

I should add that my Tech is the only triangle hole one I've ever tried, so it should be noted that maybe this one razor is a bit more aggresive than others, and of course, it could be me! Operator error? :lol:
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
Gene
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Buda, TX

Post by Gene »

brothers wrote:I should add that my Tech is the only triangle hole one I've ever tried, so it should be noted that maybe this one razor is a bit more aggresive than others, and of course, it could be me! Operator error? :lol:
Gary, it occurs to me that unless you bought that razor new you might have some type of FrankenTech?

Head geometry and all that...could it be affected if you have a triangle base plate, but the head from a different model Tech? Is that possible?
Gene

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Alan Moore
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

Gene that would have been a possibility, but this razor was my dad's original razor from when he was a teenager, he used it all his life and it stayed in my mother's medicine cabinet where he had kept it until I brought it to my house 2 years ago.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
Gene
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Buda, TX

Post by Gene »

Gonna go beat my head on the bathroom cabinet...you said that earlier, I realize that now.

Any thoughts on whether you dad "adjusted" it?

Good friend of mine has two old injectors that had been milled to increase blade exposure.
Gene

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Alan Moore
hoffo
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: Rancho Bernardo, CA USA

Post by hoffo »

notthesharpest wrote:IMO discussing closed-comb vs open-comb as a shaving question is a mistake. It is mainly a razor-manufacturing question.

The quality of your shave is going to be based on geometry: the angle at which the blade is bent inside the razor head, the angle & curve of the upper cap, the length, position, and angle of the comb area, among others.

Whether the comb area is solid or toothed does contribute a little to a different feel on your face, but all those geometry issues are the same regardless.

The Gillette NEW is not a good design because of the open comb; it's a good design because they got the head geometry right. If you made a closed-comb version but with the same contours, it would shave essentially the same.

Some closed-comb razors can be ridiculously aggressive (Vision, Futur, others); some closed-comb razors can be ridiculously mild (late-model Techs) - the same applies to open comb, though there are fewer models to compare because they're not as easy to make.
Ya know, I was thinking about that... And was thinking along those lines, but wasn't sure.
Thanks for breaking it down for me! Makes sense now how different razors and blades can be combined to provide so many different results.
Made with Macintosh!
CMur12
Posts: 7457
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA

Post by CMur12 »

I think there are two basic groups of open-comb razors, and within each group is tremendous variation.

1. The original open-comb razors were of the blade-on-comb variety, in which the blade was laid directly onto the comb, with no gap or space between them. The comb essentially allowed access to the blade. There are blade-on-comb razors in production today, such as those by Merkur and Goodfella.

2. In the 1930s, Gillette introduced open-comb razors with blade gap - with the blade raised above the comb. One of these models was the NEW. As far as I'm concerned, these open-comb razors perform identically to safety-bar razors. The blade gap allows access to the blade, so the open comb was no longer necessary and production shifted to the more easily manufactured safety bars.

- Murray
brothers
Posts: 21507
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Post by brothers »

Murray, this is an excellent point. Thanks for pointing out these facts about the OC heads.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
hoffo
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm
Location: Rancho Bernardo, CA USA

Post by hoffo »

CMur12 wrote:I think there are two basic groups of open-comb razors, and within each group is tremendous variation.

1. The original open-comb razors were of the blade-on-comb variety, in which the blade was laid directly onto the comb, with no gap or space between them. The comb essentially allowed access to the blade. There are blade-on-comb razors in production today, such as those by Merkur and Goodfella.

2. In the 1930s, Gillette introduced open-comb razors with blade gap - with the blade raised above the comb. One of these models was the NEW. As far as I'm concerned, these open-comb razors perform identically to safety-bar razors. The blade gap allows access to the blade, so the open comb was no longer necessary and production shifted to the more easily manufactured safety bars.

- Murray
Thanks for the scoop - I'll check out this Leresche once it arrives to see which one it is. I'm pretty sure it's the latter, but will have to check.
Made with Macintosh!
User avatar
Kirasdad
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Dobbs Ferry, NY

Post by Kirasdad »

I agree that the primary factor that determines aggressiveness is the blade geometry of the razor head (i.e., blade gap, angle, curve, etc.). Lately, my favorite razor has been my '37 Gillette Sheraton, one of the earliest TTO open comb offerings by Gillette; it features a "blade on the comb" design. I've been using it, almost exclusively, for the last 2-3 months, and I've never gotten better, more comfortable shaves. I've been using Iridiums, Lord Platinums, and 7 O'Clock SharpEdges in it and the shaves have been outstanding. I've noticed that the Sheraton seems to work best with very sharp blades and a light touch. The other open comb I really like is the latest Ikon, not to be confused with the original Ikon open comb, which is very aggressive.
Peace,
Andrew

Those who danced were thought to be insane, by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post Reply