My hope is that the buyer actually got an authentic, rare beehive Plisson, especially if they are a member here. However, they may indeed have been snookered.... Either way, I find it interesting.
Plisson Beehive?
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churchilllafemme
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Plisson Beehive?
What was called a "very rare Plisson Beehive" brush in 2-band (EW) just sold on the Bay for $202.50. (See image.) I had questioned the seller about its provenance, noting that it said "pure badger" in English, and he replied that it had been owned by an old lady who used it for makeup and that he has seen several Plissons that had that phrase in English on them. I sent a question to Plisson about this, and a spokesperson for Vikim Diffusion (Plisson's owner), Ulrike Jakubaschk, wrote back to me saying, "We thank you very much for your email. Actually, all our shaving brushes have a sticker 'pur blaireau' and not pure badger. And I do not know any 'beehive' handle."
My hope is that the buyer actually got an authentic, rare beehive Plisson, especially if they are a member here. However, they may indeed have been snookered.... Either way, I find it interesting.
My hope is that the buyer actually got an authentic, rare beehive Plisson, especially if they are a member here. However, they may indeed have been snookered.... Either way, I find it interesting.
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John
John
Yes, I just bought the brush. Based on the look of the hair and pictures of vintage Plissons I've seen, I have no reason to believe it's not authentic. However, given the price I paid, it's a little disconcerting to immediately find a thread saying it might not be real. However, I did do some searching around prior to bidding, and here is a pic on B&B (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread ... ge+plisson) of a vintage Plisson with the English "Pure Badger". Certainly this is an authentic Plisson handle.
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bernards66
- Duke of Silvertip!
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Yes, it's for real. I've seen photos of that old Plisson style a number of times and think I remember even seeing one 'live' once. Generally the 'pure badger' marking is in French but some brushes destined for outlets in English speaking areas may have been marked in English. Congratulations Aaron!...looks like you got an excellent and somewhat rare brush.
Regards,
Gordon
Regards,
Gordon
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bernards66
- Duke of Silvertip!
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Thanks, Gordon, your word is good enough for me. I also noted that it is marked "Made in France" on the bottom like other Plisson brushes. So in order for it to be a fake, it would have to be another brand of French brush with a Plisson sticker and a damn good looking knot. Anyway, some of the recent discussions about vintage Plissons made me want try one, and I hope it lives up to what I have read, since this is easily the most I have spent on a shaving product. Still, it's much less than current Plissons (of lower quality hair) go for, so I don't think it was a rip off.
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Sodapopjones
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churchilllafemme
- Posts: 5673
- Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:22 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Plisson Beehive
Yes, congratulations, Aaron. The reason I wrote to Vikim was because the brush intrigued me. When they first wrote back, they asked for a link, apparently thinking some commercial dealer was infringing on the name. But when I sent the link to the Bay listing, there was no further reply from them at all. I guess they were dumbfounded. Anyway, I'd sure be interested in hearing how you like the brush, especially if you use it, and maybe a comparison of its hair to more modern EW bristles.
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John
John
The brush certainly looks authentic. The information from Vikim presumably applies to current brushes only, not to vintage brushes. The brush below is of the same style, unused and with original labels and tag. The tag says "Pure Badger" on one side and "Pur Blaireau" on the reverse. I also have the original box, which displays information in both English and French as well. A price tag indicates that the brush was sold by I. Magnin & Co. for $25.00 (but no date).
These brushes were made in different sizes, perhaps in a range similar to the current horn Plissons. The handles were originally turned in ivory and made in two parts, with the base screwed into the barrel-shaped main part. I have only seen them in European White.
Leo
These brushes were made in different sizes, perhaps in a range similar to the current horn Plissons. The handles were originally turned in ivory and made in two parts, with the base screwed into the barrel-shaped main part. I have only seen them in European White.
Leo
Re: Plisson Beehive
I'll definitely be using it, but I won't be able to make much of a comparison to current Plissons. I did try a little size 8 in HMW a while ago and did not like it at all.churchilllafemme wrote:Anyway, I'd sure be interested in hearing how you like the brush, especially if you use it, and maybe a comparison of its hair to more modern EW bristles.
Does anyone know when Plisson started using the term HMW? I had asked the seller of this brush if it was considered HMW, and he said that it pre-dated this terminology. It doesn't really matter to me if this brush turns out to be EW, since these terms are kind of nebulous.
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bernards66
- Duke of Silvertip!
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Aaron, Good question....unfortunately I don't know. 'High Mountain White' is pretty clearly a kind of literal translation of a very old British term, 'Highland White' which goes back to the 19th c. when that type of whitecap bristle was sourced from the Scottish Highlands. But even though the term is very old does not necessarily mean that Plisson has been using it since then.
Regards,
Gordon
Regards,
Gordon
It's hard to tell from a picture, but Peter's brush certainly looks like a European White.druphus wrote:Check out drP's post above, that's a HMW.lfb wrote:I have only seen them in European White.
There is not much difference between the two grades, EW and HMW, in the current Plissons. But one can easily tell apart a vintage EW from a vintage HMW. You can see the difference in Peter's photo below, which shows three vintage and one recent Plisson. Peter put HMW labels on all of the vintage brushes, but two of the four brushes, the first and the last, are European White. The second brush from the left is a vintage HMW, its tips are a brighter shade of white compared to the other three brushes. (The third brush from the left is a recent HMW.)
Leo
The difference between EW and HMW is sometimes rather artificial afaic. If it weren't for the collar i couldn't see any differences at all in some brushes...not all mind you, there are Plisson brushes in which the difference is very clear, especially in some vintage ones, but nowadays the difference between HMW and EW is sometimes neither visible nor tangible...
In order to stay as genuine as possible i should remove the label "haute montagne" from some of my Plissons, that's correct. Maybe someday....
PS: look at the second brush and the display brush: the second is HMW and the display should be EW but to me the bristles have almost identical properties...ie coloration and texture....
And the first brush has deep black roots and very white tips, (even whiter than the picture shows) so could very well be two band HMW yet is labeled EW since it has a white collar...
Alors, soit.....
In order to stay as genuine as possible i should remove the label "haute montagne" from some of my Plissons, that's correct. Maybe someday....
PS: look at the second brush and the display brush: the second is HMW and the display should be EW but to me the bristles have almost identical properties...ie coloration and texture....
And the first brush has deep black roots and very white tips, (even whiter than the picture shows) so could very well be two band HMW yet is labeled EW since it has a white collar...
Alors, soit.....
Peter
Peter,drP wrote: ... there are Plisson brushes in which the difference is very clear, especially in some vintage ones, but nowadays the difference between HMW and EW is sometimes neither visible nor tangible...
I agree. Plisson does not provide a lot of information on their criteria for the different grades. The main difference between HMW and EW, according to their website, is that the latter is "not as white, not as luminous." In my experience that information only makes sense for their vintage brushes. Vintage HMW tend to have brighter white tips, while vintage EW show creamy white tips. I don't think there is any difference in quality or performance. If I had to select two brushes, I would pick a vintage HMW with a plexi handle and a vintage EW with an ivory handle. If I had to pick a single brush it would be an ivory EW. But unfortunately that kind of badger hair does not seem to be available any more.
By the way, great pictures.
Leo